TM Rocketballz...

[LuciusWooding]

I wish I were making this product line up. I expect to hear a whole lot of snickering and sophomoric jokes regarding these clubs. Even if they add more yards than the hammer, I see a PR faux pas and little else. Let the chortling begin.

*Thank God someone at Taylormade had the sense to shorten it to "RBZ" on the actual club. There will be everything from irons through driver in this line, and I expect the woods to be a hot item above the others.

Discuss... I'm considering a new driver in 2012, but I doubt it'll be this one since it's about 46" and has a too-light shaft. I think they're trying to kill the Burner line, obviously, but I'd prefer a cheaper standard R11 with a new shaft over the RBZ or the R11s.

Also, I think that TM might go bankrupt for the sole reason that they'd have to pay pros so much money to play something called "Rocketballz". I'd never be able to do that commercial with a straight face, I hope they play it a bit tongue in cheek.

[Mr. Desmond]

Camillo was playing the irons last week - RBZ.

Burner is dead -- certain to rise like Lazarus later.

[LBlack14]

The retail irons look nothing like what Camillo had in his bag. Either TMAG are stupid or they think everybody else is.....or both. I, for one, ain't bitin'. They bore me. Don't forget about the NEW R11S......yeah right.

[Stretch]

The "Jersey Shore" of golf equipment. Will probably sell by the metric assload. The world is ugly, and the people are sad.

[LuciusWooding]

Whoever came up with RBZ as an alternative name ought to get a promotion... Apparently, the engineers etched "Rocketballz" on one of the heads as a joke, and the name stuck. Someone tried their damnedest to fight that and ought to be in charge.

I watched FTS last weekend, thought they looked like R11 irons. It might have been someone else with the R11s though... I think the RBZ irons look exactly like burners without the little disc in back. Way to push the envelope, TM. I agree that the Burner line will return; they aren't changing anything visually from the burners despite the alleged advance in technology.

Good on them for adding adjustability, good reduction of the shaft length, but I didn't see much reason for the driver itself other than to push the burner out of the market. I don't think the previous woods and hybrids from TM were anything too special, and the irons were way overrated. Seems like TM is trying to grab some market share while their popularity with the R11 driver lasts. Everything is still white, of course; seems like the sort of person holding out for a black TM driver wouldn't play something called Rocketballz, however.

I think that this driver, compared to the burner, is a step in the right direction. But, it's completely tacked on compared to the woods and hybrids, which are the real advances apparently. If TM made one more step in the wrong direction, you'd get the Long Tom in a white finish. (At least Cobra has a sense of humor about it, and aren't ashamed to admit it's a total and utter gimmick.) You have the worst club in an amateur's bag, make it 46.5", lighten it to the point where they can't feel it, and put a really weak shaft on (made softer by all the length), and of course you don't make the high handicap line adjustable until now. If anything, they should have made the 2.0 even more adjustable, since it's aimed at crappier golfers.

TM needs to stop opening so many product lines and pushing each of them everywhere. R11 irons were unnecessary due to the burner 2.0 irons being clear favorites, and the R11s bringing nothing new except a thinner topline. I'd like to see them use their deep pockets and hype machines to generate buzz about a TM chipper, or maybe a ball retriever (the longest in golf). Of course, both would be painted white and have screws sticking out the back. They might be pushing their luck just a bit.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Stretch

The "Jersey Shore" of golf equipment. Will probably sell by the metric assload. The world is ugly, and the people are sad.

So true.  Lowest common denominator.

[LuciusWooding]

Is a metric assload equivalent to 1.1 normal assloads, then?

I don't want to get off topic, but I discovered that the R11s is not only larger than the R11, it is even more adjustable... I cannot comprehend who would need that.

The original claims 100 yards to each side of correction... It is unethical to make someone with more than 100 yards of slice capable of hitting straightish with no swing changes. Especially since it's a driver, the only club people practice. A decent amount of draw bias is fine, but they are approaching being able to correct a 45 degree angle. I'm all for sucky golfers enjoying the game, but anyone with that amount of help will never get better.  I don't know the specific angle change on the new one, but it already did .75 and 1.5 degrees either way, right? So a 2.25 face angle seems likely... Scary.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Is a metric assload equivalent to 1.1 normal assloads, then?

I don't want to get off topic, but I discovered that the R11s is not only larger than the R11, it is even more adjustable... I cannot comprehend who would need that.

The original claims 100 yards to each side of correction... It is unethical to make someone with more than 100 yards of slice capable of hitting straightish with no swing changes. Especially since it's a driver, the only club people practice. A decent amount of draw bias is fine, but they are approaching being able to correct a 45 degree angle. I'm all for sucky golfers enjoying the game, but anyone with that amount of help will never get better.  I don't know the specific angle change on the new one, but it already did .75 and 1.5 degrees either way, right? So a 2.25 face angle seems likely... Scary.

I think it's all marketing and .... sales, for the most part.

A high capper's swing is normally all over the place and over the top -- so a fitter can close the face and add loft to assist that player. He's also be better off shortening the shaft.

Mid-capper -- probably still needs help with closing the face but has an inconsistent swing.

Low capper -- consistency in a swing will help the fitter dial in all aspects for fit.

I think the more consistent your swing, the more dialed in you can be...

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I think it's all marketing and .... sales, for the most part.

A high capper's swing is normally all over the place and over the top -- so a fitter can close the face and add loft to assist that player. He's also be better off shortening the shaft.

Mid-capper -- probably still needs help with closing the face but has an inconsistent swing.

Low capper -- consistency in a swing will help the fitter dial in all aspects for fit.

I think the more consistent your swing, the more dialed in you can be...

Very true, but I know plenty of consistently bad golfers. The majority are slicers, who seldom hit a hook or a really straight ball. They have an inconsistent swing in terms of minutiae, but their correction would be pretty consistent, needing help getting the ball up and left. My usual playing partner hits the same low slice every time, and usually beats me because he is so consistent. I, on the other hand, am way straighter and can work it both ways (when I swing well on a given day), and have way more distance and more shots in my short game. However, I score like crap due to mediocre putting and being really inconsistent off the deck. Also, I'll be damned if he doesn't have the craziest luck sometimes.

The thing is, if you correct a slicer's ballflight without the swing, he will learn to slice it with the new settings. He has more confidence in his accuracy, so he'll usually swing for the fences. This means he'll swing hard using all the wrong sources of power and hit an even bigger slice. Good golfers can hit as hard as they want as long as they swing hard correctly, but these adjustments are a band aid fix and will result in a purchase followed by little to no game improvement. I would bet on a bad golfer's ability to slice against any odds.

The marketing is good, though. Let them hit it a few times in the shop, knowing that they want it from seeing it on tour anyway. The 46.5" wet noodle Ladies' shaft, offset, etc means it will show great numbers on the LM maybe one in 20 times, Mid life crisis man walks off with it, and is back to his old ways in a couple weeks. I'd like to see a decent company offer up a 44.5" driver with a neutral face angle and decent shaft for once.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I'd like to see a decent company offer up a 44.5" driver with a neutral face angle and decent shaft for once.

Or even 45 inches, which is now a rarity... and a fitted aftermarket shaft at the right weight, and fit for grip, and they might even get $399 for it.

[LBlack14]

Rocket Ballz doesn't surprise me after what the SuperDeep almost was called.

[Mr. Desmond]

All the hubbub with the Rocketballz fairways is slot technology on the sole -- already introduced by Adams and Nike. I'm sure TM makes a fine product -- so you're getting Ti distance in a steel product. Nice looking head and white...

[namkrats]

I just very recently got an R11 of course I was attracted to it for the adjustability and I know it won't take away my swing flaws-which I am working on-however it was my first real driver as my last one was a 12 degree nike driver. I have had experience with the white on golf clubs as I also have a daytona ghost putter. I am a decent Taylormade fan but this is getting ridiculous. Why would they come out with two new drivers when the r11 is still selling like crazy. These new drivers don't add enough at all if anything they detract from the success of the r11. I don't know why Taylormade would not use that money to come out with a second line of game improvement/high handicapper irons for players such as myself. They need to stop pushing the envelope and work on aspects with which the struggle in the market share. I know there are the Burner 2.0 irons but they really don't have a solid lineup of irons for the everyday player. Maybe I'm just being weird but I feel like my loyalty to taylormade is being stretched to an extreme with these new drivers. I will look at the RBZ irons and think they are trying to market them as an "average player" iron, but this is ridiculous

[Kobey]

Originally Posted by namkrats

Why would they come out with two new drivers when the r11 is still selling like crazy. These new drivers don't add enough at all if anything they detract from the success of the r11. I don't know why Taylormade would not use that money to come out with a second line of game improvement/high handicapper irons for players such as myself. They need to stop pushing the envelope and work on aspects with which the struggle in the market share. I know there are the Burner 2.0 irons but they really don't have a solid lineup of irons for the everyday player. Maybe I'm just being weird but I feel like my loyalty to taylormade is being stretched to an extreme with these new drivers. I will look at the RBZ irons and think they are trying to market them as an "average player" iron, but this is ridiculous

Why do they make remakes of movies that were great in the first place?

[LuciusWooding]

There's something to be said for having the newest driver on the market. Even if it's about 1/8 of a yard longer than the previous model, there's a type of golfer that wouldn't play a year old driver if he could help it. Given that a number of brands release drivers in late summer, like the G20, Taylormade gets the last word in before the start of the season. Plus, it will keep people coming to demos and constantly trying out the newest stuff, which gives them more exposure.

By the way, it turns out the face angle on the R11s goes 3* open and closed. 3* open would cause a big slice, and vice versa, so it's pretty drastic.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Kobey

Quote:

Originally Posted by namkrats

Why would they come out with two new drivers when the r11 is still selling like crazy. These new drivers don't add enough at all if anything they detract from the success of the r11. I don't know why Taylormade would not use that money to come out with a second line of game improvement/high handicapper irons for players such as myself. They need to stop pushing the envelope and work on aspects with which the struggle in the market share. I know there are the Burner 2.0 irons but they really don't have a solid lineup of irons for the everyday player. Maybe I'm just being weird but I feel like my loyalty to taylormade is being stretched to an extreme with these new drivers. I will look at the RBZ irons and think they are trying to market them as an "average player" iron, but this is ridiculous

Why do they make remakes of movies that were great in the first place?

Those I understand. Why do they remake the terrible ones?

[Divotmaker77]

I like TM and play with their products, but this is starting to get really old. Every year they come up with groundbreaking technology that will add another 15 yards to your swing. Guess what, I am still hitting about the same distance with 3 upgrades in equipment in the last 6 years.  I will agree that the R11 was revolutionary with the white and the adjustable face that came out with the R9, but to keep claiming the equipment adds so much yardage every year is stupid and people fall for it.  By their logic, I should be driving the ball around 350 yards now which is completely ridiculous for me to do along with most others on the planet.

I am really starting to believe TM is all hype and marketing and no real substance to their products.  I have some really good golfing buddies who play with other products that have been telling me for several years now TM is the superb marketing company and the others are the real innovators in technology.

I have the burner driver and do think an upgrade is necessary because I would like to get an adjustable head, but there is no way I am going to get rid of my burner 2.0 irons for a new products that is the same exact product but with a different name and color on it. I may get the R11 but I am not paying naother $200 for the same product that has an S on it.

[LuciusWooding]

I agree, the good thing about this for most of us is that the R11 should drop in price. When you release new models all the time, that means the R11 should be in a clearance rack to make room.