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Kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the downswing?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I remembered reading about kicking the right knee in, towards the target, from the top of the backswing. Gave it a shot, and the result was incredible. I went from falling forward and sideways with the weight on the outside of my left foot on the finish to a balanced finish with the weight on the inside. Ball striking went from occasional fat and scoopy to solid, with a pure feeling at impact. Hit the irons 5-20 yards further.

I think it helped my weight transfer a lot. I get a much better shot if I work on pushing my hips forward, but I don't like the feeling of it. Kicking the right knee in is very simple and takes no effort. It feels like the knee sort of collapse, so the weight has to be supported by the left foot.

Using the left knee is also something I've tried, but there I'm back to the same issue as with the left hip. I don't like the feeling of having to thrust it forwards. Using the right knee instead doesn't take any effort, it just starts a chain reaction that leads to the weight moving forwards.

I think Moe Norman also talked about this in a video of him at Youtube. It was kinda old, homemade, just Moe hitting balls and talking. Anyone know where I can find this? I definitely think he mentioned kicking one of the knees in and towards the target.

Any thoughts?
post #2 of 18

Re: Kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the downswing?

IMHO, do anything you'd like to initiate your downswing. It's all about getting movement going. Tilt your head, forward press your hands (a little), kick in your knee... Anything works, and all are totally fine. It's got to start with something... and your right knee is something..
post #3 of 18

Re: Kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the downswing?

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
I remembered reading about kicking the right knee in, towards the target, from the top of the backswing. Gave it a shot, and the result was incredible. I went from falling forward and sideways with the weight on the outside of my left foot on the finish to a balanced finish with the weight on the inside. Ball striking went from occasional fat and scoopy to solid, with a pure feeling at impact. Hit the irons 5-20 yards further.

It feels like the knee sort of collapse, so the weight has to be supported by the left foot.

Any thoughts?
Any thought like this that gets you moving in an linear manner (forward) is good. Just be REALLY sure that when the knee kicks "in" that it is moving without overflexing. When too much flex is added to that right knee it is very disruptive to many things. The right knee should never become more flexed than the initial address flex in the downswing...so just be careful to move it forward or "in" without too much flex in it.

Dave
post #4 of 18

Re: Kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the downswing?

Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
Any thought like this that gets you moving in an linear manner (forward) is good. Just be REALLY sure that when the knee kicks "in" that it is moving without overflexing. When too much flex is added to that right knee it is very disruptive to many things. The right knee should never become more flexed than the initial address flex in the downswing...so just be careful to move it forward or "in" without too much flex in it.

Dave
Dave, this is something that I have really been struggling with using the S&T swing. My backswing is picture perfect, but it's the downswing where things fall apart.

I was having pretty good results starting my downswing with my arms. I would use a hard tug with my left arm towards the target. However, after reading more about the S&T, Plummer and Bennett say to initiate the downswing with the hips. If I initiate the downswing with my hips I tend to end up leaning back missing with tops and thins.

So, what I am asking is how do I turn my hips and get the weight onto my left side without leaning back? Any good drills or tips?

Thanks
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 

Re: Kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the downswing?

Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
Any thought like this that gets you moving in an linear manner (forward) is good. Just be REALLY sure that when the knee kicks "in" that it is moving without overflexing. When too much flex is added to that right knee it is very disruptive to many things. The right knee should never become more flexed than the initial address flex in the downswing...so just be careful to move it forward or "in" without too much flex in it.

Dave
Very good point. I know that I don't want my knee moving towards the ball, so I practice with having some object placed in front of my knee. If I increase the flex, I'll hit the object.
post #6 of 18

Zeph are you still doing this ? I have recently started doing this myself and have had great results so I took a quick look here to see if their was any info on it. 

 

Anyone else ever try this.?

post #7 of 18

You are right! I also find if you want to draw the ball, set up for a draw and don't kick it in. For a fade, set up and kick it in. For a straight shot, kick it in.

post #8 of 18

Kicking in the right knee tends to get the hips rotating.  That is a good way to start a swing.

post #9 of 18
Every time I read one of these threads, and there are a lot of them about triggering the downswing, I am lost. If somebody asked me what started or triggered my downswing I would answer (not sarcastically): "the end of my backswing."

Not sure if this is a "stupid monkey" thing, or perhaps it's just a stupid thing. ;)
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthecup View Post

Kicking in the right knee tends to get the hips rotating.  That is a good way to start a swing.

 

At the same time… far too many people "kick it in" too much, and don't get enough linear motion with their hips.

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

At the same time… far too many people "kick it in" too much, and don't get enough linear motion with their hips.
Eric, is that what creates the "spinning out" move? I think I have that and I think it causes me to hit pushes, push cuts, and even pull cuts.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by pholmes View Post

Eric, is that what creates the "spinning out" move? I think I have that and I think it causes me to hit pushes, push cuts, and even pull cuts.

 

All kinds of things. If you're a righty, try feeling like your hips side towards first base longer during the downswing, keep the right knee from flexing too much, and keep the left knee flexing forward (and flexed!) longer. Snapping the lead leg straight leads to spinning out too.

post #13 of 18
Thanks man, I think that's a good call about the left leg, I think I'll try to calm that down a little.
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

All kinds of things. If you're a righty, try feeling like your hips side towards first base longer during the downswing, keep the right knee from flexing too much, and keep the left knee flexing forward (and flexed!) longer. Snapping the lead leg straight leads to spinning out too.

Eric,

How important is it to keep the head and upper torso back when the hips slide forward or is some forward movement of the head and upper torso acceptable? Doesn't MORAD recommend stacked COG's through impact?

 

Thanks

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan1949 View Post

How important is it to keep the head and upper torso back when the hips slide forward or is some forward movement of the head and upper torso acceptable? Doesn't MORAD recommend stacked COG's through impact?

 

To answer the second question first, it depends on which of the two main patterns you're after, and even then, in a CP motion, the hips are slightly forward of the upper center. Not a lot, but a little.

 

Letting the URC (upper rotational center) go forward is fine if you don't mind hitting the ball low. They can also go forward a little if they go back a little during the backswing (some people create some secondary axis tilt in the backswing, then move both LRC/URC forward during downswing).

post #16 of 18

I used to kick the right knee in. I think it must have made me keep my knees flexed too much on the backswing, because every swing felt like I was twisting my knee (and I'm pretty flexible). I eventually abandoned it when it started hurting.

 

I was probably doing it wrong, or doing it too much (also wrong).

post #17 of 18

A good idea (kicking the right knee in, a good initiation of the sdownswing) I got as well from reading a tip by Jimmy Ballard. Jimmy makes a good point in that if the weight is on the right side at the top of the swing, you can not shift to the left side using the left foot. Typical instrction calls for starting the downswing by moving the left foot forward from the top. If there is no weight on the left foot how can you move it forward? The only way to move th weight onto the left foot is to push with the right foot using a pushing action towards the ball with the right weight bearing knee. That seems seems to do the trick but wonder why others are not recommending this technique.

 

Harold.

post #18 of 18

POHO, I think that's backwards.

 

If you kick the knee in, you're decreasing the pressure against the ground, and thus by definition not "pushing."

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