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Starting the turn with the hips...how?


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I'm still working on it (along with a lot of things) but one thing I find helps is to just stand in front of a mirror in the house without a club and work on it. I take a backswing position and then emphasize starting with the hips. With the mirror I can see whether my feeling lines up with what my body is doing, so it's helped connect feeling with reality.

I find that, in general, there is a lot you can practice with a mirror and nothing else. Heck, a lot of things don't even need the mirror, though it can be harder to tell if you're actually doing what you think you are.

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Good question, Soultones.
Before I get to the 'how', it's important to know 'why' you'd want to start the downswing with the hips.
Some people believe you power the downswing by firstly turning the hips. This increases resistance between the stationary shoulders facing away from the target, and the hips, which are now rotating towards the target. In releasing this resistance, you'd have a greater torque (turning force), and therefore greater speed through impact. This is known in golfing terms as the "transition", where a skilled player can start the downswing before they've finished the backswing.

While the above is true, it's not essential for a good swing and it's not the chief reason to start the downswing with the hips.

Now, the main reason to start with your hips has nothing to do with powering your swing, but actually with the path the club head takes in reaching impact. Not only that, but the rotation of the hips isn't so important either, you want to slide your hips towards the target when starting the downswing, not rotate them. By pushing those hips forwards towards the target, and shifting your weight to the left foot (assuming you're right handed), you're putting yourself in a great position to strike the ball with an in-to-out swing path, which is needed to hit straight shots and draws.

That's a simplistic explanation of the hips in action on the downswing. Apologies if you already knew all that, but in my experience many people don't, and get all worked up about turning their hips and not sliding them.

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In answer to your 'how' question, try this. At the top of your backswing, initiate the downswing by pushing out your left knee towards the target. Your hips and rest of you will follow.

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Now, the main reason to start with your hips has nothing to do with powering your swing, but actually with the path the club head takes in reaching impact. Not only that, but the rotation of the hips isn't so important either, you want to slide your hips towards the target when starting the downswing, not rotate them. By pushing those hips forwards towards the target, and shifting your weight to the left foot (assuming you're right handed), you're putting yourself in a great position to strike the ball with an in-to-out swing path, which is needed to hit straight shots and draws.

I know there is a thread that talks extensively about sliding the hips. However, your first move cannot be a hip slide "towards the target." During the backswing the right hip (righties) moves perpendicular and away from the target line (backwards) which means at the top of your swing a line drawn through you hips points right of the target. Therefore if you start the swing by sliding your hips you are sliding them right of the target not at the target. Pushing the left knee towards the target causes a hip rotation centered around a point a few inches behind and left of the tail bone.

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During the backswing the right hip (righties) moves perpendicular and away from the target line (backwards) which means at the top of your swing a line drawn through you hips points right of the target.

You're half right in that the right hip moves away form the target line, but not perpendicular to it. Perpendicular would be a straight line 90 degrees from the target line. The right hip does not move in a straight line on the backswing, it moves in a clockwise circle around the axis of your spine. You're correct in that a line drawn through the hips would point right of the target.

Therefore if you start the swing by sliding your hips you are sliding them right of the target not at the target.

No, the instruction is to slide them towards the target, regardless of how far you have rotated the hips on the backswing. You've interpreted "slide your hips" as "slide your hips to the left, in the direction they're pointing." which is wrong.

Pushing the left knee towards the target causes a hip rotation centered around a point a few inches behind and left of the tail bone.

Yes, moving your left knee towards the target would cause anti-clockwise hip rotation, that's not in dispute. However, the main function of initiating the downswing with your left knee is that it shifts your hips, and the rest of your mass, towards the target.

I don't know how you've come up with the hip rotating around a point "a few inches behind and left of the tail bone". The hips rotate again around the vertebra they are level with in the spine. (However, as this point is shifting towards the target, the rotation of the hips would not be perfectly circular, but elongated. You could go into more details with the mathematical concept of locus and loci but let's not get into drawing diagrams here...) So in conclusion, your first move can, and should, be a hip slide towards the target.

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I don't know how you've come up with the hip rotating around a point "a few inches behind and left of the tail bone". The hips rotate again around the vertebra they are level with in the spine. (However, as this point is shifting towards the target, the rotation of the hips would not be perfectly circular, but elongated. You could go into more details with the mathematical concept of locus and loci but let's not get into drawing diagrams here...)

because, the push forward establishes your left leg as your anchor, or post. and your left leg is connected to the left side of the hip, not in line with the spine. so he's pretty much correct, unless of course you're a lefty.

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I agree with "Taggsy", lol, mostly b/c that is how I do it. Takes some practice, also really helps with lag and the pause at the top of the swing. When done proporly it feels like the hands and arms are just along for the ride and the swing is almost effortless.
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Been working on this for months. It is a very dynamic move. The following two videos have helped me the most understand the hip initiating movement.

In these videos, the initial move looks like the left hip (for a righty) is pushed forward by the right foot/right instep. Obviously, if the left hip moves forward, so does the right hip. So the initial move is the entire pelvis being pushed forward by the right foot/instep. Then front knee drives forward and simultaneously extends (straightens)

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I try to feel like I am making a lateral push towards the target right at the top of the backswing. Almost as if I am starting to push my hips before I finish the backswing.

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  • 1 month later...
Does anyone know any drills with an emphasis on triggering a hip turn/slide?

Caution on non-ball swing drills. Don't do these more than a couple of days in a row without hitting some full shots. Otherwise, you will overemphasize the drill move when you play, and mess up your timing and coordination.

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I like to feel as if I drop my right elbow down to my right hip while squatting into my left buttocks.

Can anyone describe how they remember to do this? What it feels like? I know I do this to some extent, but how does everyone else trigger this motion?

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In a good swing, it is obvious that the lower body leads the downswing, but can you make your lower body movements perfect every time by using a lower body key? Sounds like a lot of practice. I prefer to make my lower body movements subconscious so they have to be perfect.

If you have any interest in that, the instruction I use is "The Golf Swing And Its Master Key Explained" by Noel Thomas.
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If it hasn't been mentioned already, go get yourself a copy of Hogan's Five Lessons book. Maybe you already have it? Lesson 4 is, The Second Part of the Swing. in there is probably the easiest way to understand the desired effect. Its where Hogan describes "Imagine that, at address, one end of and elastic stripe is fastened to a wall directly behind your left hep and that the other end is fastened to you left hipbone. As the shoulders turn the hips on the backswing, the elastic is stretched with increased tension. When you start turning the hips back to the left, the elastic will snap back to the left with tremendous speed." No pushing or thrusting or moving, simply twisting then untwisting.

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+1 to the above, fantastic book that everyone should own! :P

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I don't try to turn them, but push them forward. Once they get a head start, the arms have to speed up to catch up again.

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If it hasn't been mentioned already, go get yourself a copy of Hogan's Five Lessons book. Maybe you already have it? Lesson 4 is, The Second Part of the Swing. in there is probably the easiest way to understand the desired effect. Its where Hogan describes "Imagine that, at address, one end of and elastic stripe is fastened to a wall directly behind your left hep and that the other end is fastened to you left hipbone. As the shoulders turn the hips on the backswing, the elastic is stretched with increased tension. When you start turning the hips back to the left, the elastic will snap back to the left with tremendous speed." No pushing or thrusting or moving, simply twisting then untwisting.

Yes, but what he says here and what he actually did are two different things; or he just didn't describe the weight shift/hip slide: His hips clearly move to his left even before impact and continues through to the finish. He's obviously rotating as well but there's definitely a weight shift in addition to the rotation.

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No pushing or thrusting or moving, simply twisting then untwisting.

Unfortunately this is one of the things Ben Hogan says he did which he clearly did not do. And though I like the two oval image on the left, the one on the right is just odd: Ben does not want his shoulders there (farther to the left than his hips viewed DTL).

I've posted a few pictures of Hogan's hip slide before. Frankly, it's my belief* that this single piece of advice - or the interpretation of it - is in the top three of worst golf tips (given their interpetations) of all time. Hogan clearly didn't "just turn." Image is too large to want to include here: http://iacas.org/asm/fimgs/hogan_hip...p1_p4_p7.5.jpg *
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