LPGA blows it with Morgan Pressel slow play penalty

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocks 

Funny, I was just thinking that the reason the LPGA actually enforces its slow play policy is because it simply isn't popular enough to annoy people who don't want to watch golfers take forever to hit a shot.

Yep. In fact, they've made me a bigger fan by actually enforcing these rules. I wish the PGA Tour would follow suit.

It was a tough call and I'm not sure if it was the fairest one.  But it was according to the rules and I don't think the rules official had a choice. Having said that I can see why Morgan took some time with that second shot.  It was a difficult shot and just as she was ready to hit the wind came up so she (wisely in my opinion) backed off, changed clubs and began again.  So, maybe there should be some latitude given to the officials.  But then the likely outcome would be no one would ever be penalized.  It is just darn difficult, maybe impossible, to make rules that fit our sense of "fairness" in ever instance.  I remember Jack N. saying once after an awful bounce (in the fairway into an unplayable lie) cost him a tournament that "no one ever told me it was a fair game".

Well, you've got two slow players, and admittedly, the other player was a self-confessed slower player. I think rules officials need to consider the reason for the slow play on a particular hole before assessing a penalty that unfortunately turned the match.

So I'm not a big fan of the rules officials taking advantage of a particularly difficult situation to turn a match.

Stupidity

Abuse.

Morgan Pressel was slow on the hole in question and had been given warnings.

Clearly her actions reflected a :they won't penalize me as this is too big a stage

for that , being the semi final...attitude. I infact thing she probably didn't really think

about it at all.

Regardless of her delays, the importance of the moment and the fact that

there were no real other groups who were impacted that much make

it seem somewhat surprising that they chose THAT MOMENT to enforce

a slow play rule.

Clearly it impacted the outcome. I dont think anyone  (except those sticklers for the rules at any price) can feel wonderful about the application of this rule in this situation.

I noted how Charlie Rymer, a stick in the mud kind of guy when it comes to this, really

jumped on the bandwagon of support for the establishment LPGA policy. I wonder
if he would have been so inclined when Tiger was given all those breaks earlier in his career

(like hitting a ball into the parking lot and not being called for OB , or, in Tucson I think,

when he allowed the crowd to move a huge boulder ...under the pretext of the

allowability of moving a pebble or small rock...and no one, except old Ken Venturi, still in the booth, realized how inauthentic it was to allow this...)

It would be interesting to know just how many other times this rule has been

applied, and, particularly, when it was applied with such an important match

or stroke situation on the line. I would guess not much and not recently.

Anyone know that info? Too bad for both golfers, as Munoz, a fine young talent,

will always have her first win ...this one...tainted as a result.

SHe had received 2 warning already and then still played agonizingly slow when she knew she was on the clock. I am 100% okay with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsburg2 

SHe had received 2 warning already and then still played agonizingly slow when she knew she was on the clock. I am 100% okay with it.

Well sure. It didn't cost you $200k. Whenther Pressel is okay with it is the more relevant point.

Did she violate the letter of the rule? It would appear so. But I would have to guess that she wasn't the only one that took too long to play a couple of shots. And further, it was match play & the semifinals at that. Point being, there were a grand total of four golfers on the course.

Add that up & you get, imo, a serious breach of the spirit of the rule.

I know I know...so what - a violation is a violation. But you would have to prove to me that Pressel was the only one who breached it, i.e., the only one who deserved to get gigged.

I liken it to an NFL official who sees a violation but decides to keep the flag in his pocket, or an NBA official who sees a guy take an extra step but swallows his whistle. Could they penalize? Sure. Should they penalize is the question. Hell, NFL refs could flag for holding on damn near every play.

And in the case of the semifinals of a match-play golf tournament, with this match having four holes left to play, with only two matches going on, and changing the situation from three up with 4 to play to one up with four to play, is, to me, over-officiating.

The punishment didn't fit the crime.

I gotta agree with Zip.  The punishment did not fit the crime.  A rule was broken, that is a fact... but when discretion can be used (which it could in this case) the officials have to let things be.  As a former basketball referee, it is commonplace to let the players win/lose the game.  It was painfully obvious that Morgan was "finished" after the decision.  Not to mention that the match was slowed again by another possible rules infraction with Munoz "touching" her putting line.

With only 2 groups on the course, is time really an issue!

6 hours! Are you kidding? I regularly get around in sub 3.

I'm way more a fan now that this has occurred. Not sure why but I just like seeing the rules enforced-

When does the clock start for you 30 seconds? The moment your opponent strikes their ball? Is there a clear start time?

Here's the rule as I think I heard it on TV coverage this morning:

30 seconds allowed per shot with 10 seconds grace,

101 seconds for three shots triggers penalty.

GC did not show the actual hole being played -- I know the TV coverage had not started but don't they have cameras rolling? Same with the putter touching the line -- where is the good camera shot?

From what I understand the clock started after all the caddies and players were in position on the tee box. They allowed Morgan "a little" extra time to allow the tee area to quiet down after the players arrival since she had the honor on the tee.  On a personal note, I would think that when the wind picked up and she needed to change clubs the timer would stop at least to allow the club change.  

She was warned twice before and still played with NO sense of urgency. This is a topic that you can't be wrong or right IMO. I won't convince anyone that disagrees with me and thats fine. I side with the official.

Its a shame that she couldn't speed up her play after being warned twice. Its a shame the wind kicked up forced a club change (though she would have still run over on time imo). Its a shame she couldn't compose herself after the infraction.

The letter of the rule vs. the spirit of the rule? Oh fer crissakes people. Golf isn't the frickin' NFL.

The best rules are the ones that are both clearly written and clearly followed.

The spirit of the rule is not for players to take as long as they want regardless of how many matches are on the course. It's poor etiquette, lousy for the fans, and just inconsiderate.

The penalty was appropriate. She was warned TWICE? Give me a break.

It's still not enough, but at least the LPGA has balls where the PGA Tour does not when it comes to slow play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsburg2 

She was warned twice before and still played with NO sense of urgency. This is a topic that you can't be wrong or right IMO. I won't convince anyone that disagrees with me and thats fine. I side with the official.

Its a shame that she couldn't speed up her play after being warned twice. Its a shame the wind kicked up forced a club change (though she would have still run over on time imo). Its a shame she couldn't compose herself after the infraction.

Well, maybe because there was no urgency. Look at it this way - what would happen if she went, say, 30 seconds over the time limit? What consequence occurs? The network squeezing in one less commercial is all I can come up with.

I mean, it's not like Munoz keels over in exhaustion if Pressel goes long. And it's not like they were holding up anyone. And they were playing for some serious money. To me, that all adds up to, let them play.

I will reference other sports (again) - nobody goes to a football game to watch refs throw flags. And nobody watches a golf tourament to see players get gigged with penalty shots.

Again, it's a could versus should situation. Obviously the official could penalize her. Should he have is the question.

I say no way. Swallow the whistle. Let them play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Bogey 

I gotta agree with Zip.  The punishment did not fit the crime.  

you're right, the penalty was awful severe for the violation.  In effect is was a 2 hole swing.   It would have been a lot more fair if they had given Morgan a stroke penalty which would have made the hole a half.  I know in match play penalties are almost all loss of hole but don't think that needs to be written in granite.