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At what point do you begin to move back?


Chris Stewart
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I was talking to someone today about my round yesterday where I broke 90 for the first time. When I mentioned I played from the white tees, he suggested that I be moving back to get more accurate scores. I obviously realize an 87 from the white tees isn't an 87 from the blues or blacks. I also reminded him how the difference in tees is factored into the rating/slope for each set. I know I'll need to move back eventually, but as a 22 hcp I don't think I'm there yet. When he said that, especially since I've been wondering when I should start moving back, I decided to go through the card from yesterday and evaluate the differences in par 3s and approach shots on 4s. Here's the card from yesterday: [URL=http://www.providencegolfclub.com/images/SCAN0008.jpg]Providence Golf Club[/URL]. Moving from the whites to the blues would go from 66.1/122 at 5,600 yards to 69.1/129 at 6,100 yards. The average par 4 approach shot would go from ~110-130 yards on the whites to ~125-150 yards on the blues. This assumes I get a solid drive and hit my distance of 250 yards (normal range of 220-250). The longer par 3s would put me in 4i and 5w range on the blues, from 5i and 6i on the whites. The par 5s wouldn't change at all really. I'm always playing those conservatively (except #8, which I get around the fringe in 2) and generally hit 1w, 7i/9i, and AW to the green. I think in the case of this course, I'm going to play the blues next time and see how it goes. What would you do or suggest? Do you feel there's a clear point in which you begin moving back and eventually reach the back tees?

Driver: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 10.5* Woods: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 3w 15*, 5w 18* Hybrid: TaylorMade Burner SuperFast 2.0 Rescue -- 4h 21* Irons: TaylorMade Burner Plus -- 5-AW Wedges: TaylorMade RAC -- 56.12, 60.07 Putter: TaylorMade Spider Ghost -- 35" Ball: It's complicated.

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I really depends on how far you hit the ball.  5,600 is pretty short for a par 71 if you are driving it 220-250 yards.  I think you could handle  6,100 yards and you might even end up with shorter shots then you think you are going to.  Couldn't hurt to give it a try next time and see how it goes, if after a good drive you still end up hitting hybrids and long irons into every green I would move back up to the whites.

Congrats on the 87 though, I don't think playing from 5,600 diminishes the achievement at all.

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Maybe not much of an answer, but i think you should play the tees that you get the most enjoyment playing. Some people dont like constantly hitting mid to long irons on par 4's. But if you want to challenge yourself , try moving back and see how it feels when you are done. Sometimes moving back will take some hazards out of play.
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I was just about to make a topic on this same exact question... creepy.

I'm assuming I should be playing from the blues since I've broken 80 and drive the ball 260+ consistently?

2013 Goal:

 

Single digit handicap

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Considering the pros face different distances during tournaments as tees are moved around I don't think distance alone is a way to measure progress or difficulty. When they shortened the extremely long par 5 at the US Open some guys had more trouble with it when it was shorter. I would say until you are consistently scoring lower than 90 there isn't a reason to move back. That and I'd try to figure out what made the difference for you, less putts, less mistakes/penalties, more accurate wedge play etc. I doubt it was because of being 15-20y closer to the hole. If it was that simple you'd struggle when the pin placement was at the back of a green.

My experience is my lowest rounds are a result of less putts and less mistakes; less bad hits, avoiding OB and water...Typically because one good thing leads to another good thing. If I'm striking the ball well I'm playing my 2nd shot from a better lie. Which result in more greens hit. Which results in less strokes in general. Being in a better position on the green leads to more confident putting.

Dave :-)

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I used to play with a friend that was also an Instructor. He taught me a lot. He always played the tips, and I was playing whites. When he and I first met I was playing around 115 to 120 a round. He got me down to around 90. Then he recommended that I move back and try it out for a few rounds. I was driving fairly well, my flaw at that time was my short game within around 60. Moving back 1 tee made the course just long enough to play to my strengths, and within 6 months I was shooting mid 80's. I have played from there ever since.
Tried the tips a couple of times a couple years ago when I was playing every week. That was a bit to far back for me to play regularly. I may shoot from there everyonce in a while if the group in front of me is playing slow. Just to challenge myself. It's not something I am ready to do every game yet though.
Try it out and see if you are comfertable there. If not, you can always move back.
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The guy you were talking to kind of sounded bitter like, "your 87 from the whites isn't as good as my 87 from the blues so dont go around bragging." play whatever you have more fun with. I find blues more challenging and fun and I don't break 90 consistently. I can shoot 82 from blues one day and 98 the next day. distance has less to do with scores than short game does.

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The guy you were talking to kind of sounded bitter like, "your 87 from the whites isn't as good as my 87 from the blues so dont go around bragging." play whatever you have more fun with. I find blues more challenging and fun and I don't break 90 consistently. I can shoot 82 from blues one day and 98 the next day. distance has less to do with scores than short game does.

Yeah, what's with 'more accurate' scores? Your 87 was just as legit as his, but his simply resulted in a different handicap. Like others have said, hop back there, see if you still have fun, and go from there. Moving back 500 yards shouldn't affect your score by more than 3-5 shots....or maybe none at all, as others have mentioned. Averaging 235 off the tee is plenty long enough to play a 6100 par 71 course. EDIT: FWIW, I shot 77 from 6630, turned around and played with a group of older guys and shot 82 the next day from 6075. WTF ever.....I started thinking about the result of the round as soon as I stepped up to the shorter tees and screwed myself. I know better.

In The Bag: - Patience - Persistence - Perseverance - Platitudes

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You can definitely move back, but dont be in a rush to - when you are shooting 70 from your whites, your score wont go up that much moving back.

The name of the game is to shoot as low a score as possible - I wish I could convince one of my playing partners to move up a set occasionally.

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Chris, although my friends call me Mr.L

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This might not make sense when you look at my handicap, but I've always had the ability to drive the ball long. I realize "long" is a relative term. I played in a 2 man best ball tournament a few weeks ago. First tee shot from the back tees drove the green. According to the card it was 330 yards, and I'm sure I got a lot of roll. Still was an awesome feeling. I mostly work on my short game and putting, that's where I blow it.

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I'm assuming I should be playing from the blues since I've broken 80 and drive the ball 260+ consistently?

I would say so, especially driving it 260+. My biggest concern is that I'm not a long hitter, so I worry about the approach shots on par 4s and longer 3s.

Driver: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 10.5* Woods: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 3w 15*, 5w 18* Hybrid: TaylorMade Burner SuperFast 2.0 Rescue -- 4h 21* Irons: TaylorMade Burner Plus -- 5-AW Wedges: TaylorMade RAC -- 56.12, 60.07 Putter: TaylorMade Spider Ghost -- 35" Ball: It's complicated.

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My experience is my lowest rounds are a result of less putts and less mistakes; less bad hits, avoiding OB and water...

This is absolutely true for me as well. I keep detailed stats on my rounds and analyze them. It's about as simple as staying away from penalties for me.

Driver: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 10.5* Woods: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 3w 15*, 5w 18* Hybrid: TaylorMade Burner SuperFast 2.0 Rescue -- 4h 21* Irons: TaylorMade Burner Plus -- 5-AW Wedges: TaylorMade RAC -- 56.12, 60.07 Putter: TaylorMade Spider Ghost -- 35" Ball: It's complicated.

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distance has less to do with scores than short game does.

Excellent point. I've found this to be true for me recently. My short game has been improving a lot and my scores show it, assuming I'm not hitting OB off the tee to start the hole off poorly. I haven't gained any distance over this time, just a better short game.

Driver: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 10.5* Woods: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 3w 15*, 5w 18* Hybrid: TaylorMade Burner SuperFast 2.0 Rescue -- 4h 21* Irons: TaylorMade Burner Plus -- 5-AW Wedges: TaylorMade RAC -- 56.12, 60.07 Putter: TaylorMade Spider Ghost -- 35" Ball: It's complicated.

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Originally Posted by Dave2512

Considering the pros face different distances during tournaments as tees are moved around I don't think distance alone is a way to measure progress or difficulty. When they shortened the extremely long par 5 at the US Open some guys had more trouble with it when it was shorter. I would say until you are consistently scoring lower than 90 there isn't a reason to move back. That and I'd try to figure out what made the difference for you, less putts, less mistakes/penalties, more accurate wedge play etc. I doubt it was because of being 15-20y closer to the hole. If it was that simple you'd struggle when the pin placement was at the back of a green.

My experience is my lowest rounds are a result of less putts and less mistakes; less bad hits, avoiding OB and water...Typically because one good thing leads to another good thing. If I'm striking the ball well I'm playing my 2nd shot from a better lie. Which result in more greens hit. Which results in less strokes in general. Being in a better position on the green leads to more confident putting.


Great post. Handicap should determine what tees you play and not how far someone hits a tee shot.

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This might not make sense when you look at my handicap, but I've always had the ability to drive the ball long.

[quote name="Jeffrey71" url="/t/59991/at-what-point-do-you-begin-to-move-back#post_735774"]I mostly work on my short game and putting, that's where I blow it.[/quote] Put those statements together and it definitely makes sense. I wish I could hit the ball as far as you do, that's got to be an awesome feeling. Just think of how nice your game will be when your short game catches up to your ability to bomb it off the tee. Keep it up!

Driver: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 10.5* Woods: TaylorMade SuperFast 2.0 -- 3w 15*, 5w 18* Hybrid: TaylorMade Burner SuperFast 2.0 Rescue -- 4h 21* Irons: TaylorMade Burner Plus -- 5-AW Wedges: TaylorMade RAC -- 56.12, 60.07 Putter: TaylorMade Spider Ghost -- 35" Ball: It's complicated.

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My simple rule is I should be able to break 80 from a given set of tees before I start to consider moving back a set.  That being said I'll start out from what are considered to be the standard set of "men's" tees.  While that terminology is becoming somewhat outdated I'll ask the starter that question if I'm not sure and they'll usually understand what I saying and direct me accordingly.  I played a resort course once that had dispensed with tees by color and instead they were numbered 1 through 5.  The starter asked for my handicap and suggested I try the number 2 tees (1 were the shortest) for the front nine and if things were going well to go back to number 3.  This was a really tough course and while I wound up playing from the 3's the entire round I could see his point for urging me to play forward.

Nike Vapor Speed driver 12* stock regular shaft
Nike Machspeed 4W 17*, 7W 21* stock stiff shafts
Ping i10 irons 4-9, PW, UW, SW, LW AWT stiff flex
Titleist SC Kombi 35"; Srixon Z Star XV tour yellow

Clicgear 3.0; Sun Mountain Four 5

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There are a number of factors to consider. Let me preface this by saying I do not imply any hard and fast rules, but offer what I hope are some helpful suggestions.

I wouldn't move back as a regular practice until your handicap is around 15-"bogey" or slightly better. At 22, you are missing a few and moving back will generally add strokes.

You should have a reasonable expectation that maybe 50% of the time you will be on or close to the green in regulation--at least that your distance and direction place you on or close.

As you progress in distance and direction, what clubs are you using? If your handicap is due to chipping and putting but on all the par fours your are hitting driver-wedge and are on or reasonbly close, then moving back will give other areas of your game more exercise and interest.

There is nothing wrong with trying the longer tees anytime you feel like, but do be considerate of your fellow golfers and do it when the course is less crowded so you don't slow people up.

Most people enjoy shooting lower scores, so in general the traditional advice is to pick the set of tees that gives you challenge while still scoring reasonably in a reasonable amount of time. If the score is not your primary focus, then do what pleases you best as long as you are not slowing the pace of play.

Don

In the bag:

Driver: PING 410 Plus 9 degrees, Alta CB55 S  Fairway: Callaway Rogue 3W PX Even Flow Blue 6.0; Hybrid: Titleist 818H1 21* PX Even Flow Blue 6.0;  Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 5-W2(53*) Shafts- TT AMT Red S300 ; Wedges Vokey SM8 56-10D Putter: Scotty Cameron 2016 Newport 2.5  Ball: Titleist AVX or 2021 ProV1

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Originally Posted by Chris Stewart

This is absolutely true for me as well. I keep detailed stats on my rounds and analyze them. It's about as simple as staying away from penalties for me.

Since I've been keeping stats, this is my first season, I was surprised to learn what I did well and what I didn't. Some of my best rounds have been derailed by penalties. Which for me can lead to erratic play as I try to make up for it. Last week I was on my way to shooting a 40 on the front 9 and made a mess out of #9 after hitting into the water off the tee. Ended up carding a 10 on that hole. Though the real mistake was adding up my card on the 9th tee and putting the jinx on myself.

Dave :-)

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Note: This thread is 4313 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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