Players Needed!!! Join the TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment!!!

***iacas*** · August 15, 2012

Experiment #1: 2012 Forward Tees

This is the first in what will become an ongoing series of "experiments." In the future, we may have "experiments" that have you guys, the "experimenters" or "Sand Trap Scientists" or whatever the heck we call this in the end, doing things like playing one round of golf where you commit to making no swings at more than 75% power, or playing with three clubs, or trying to do different kinds of things (some may not even be on the golf course, but could be at a practice session, etc.).

Members who participate in this will get a fun little badge beneath their posts:

The goal of this experiment is to play two rounds from the most forward tees you can play on your course, each using a different style of play, and see what happens. You'll all be asked to form a hypothesis in the form of predicting your two scores and then you'll write some notes on how the experiment went in the end.

The background for this is that golfers typically over-estimate how well they'll score from shorter tees, largely because of some misconceptions about the relative strengths and weaknesses of their game. And yet, playing from shorter tees is a time-honored tactic for some of the game's better college and even PGA Tour players, because it helps them get comfortable with going low. If you're struggling to break 80, perhaps shooting a couple of 73s from some forward tees will be all that you need to be comfortable the next time you're six over with three to play. Or shooting 64 will help you stop backing up when you get a few under par from your regular tees.

Schedule of Events

By now many of you will have chosen the course on which you'll conduct your experiment. If you haven't, do so now.

August 15 - 31 - This is the signup period. Post in this thread (answer the questions below). If you haven't played yet from the regular tees on the course you're going to play, do so during this time.

September 1 - 15 - Play two rounds from the same set of forward tees. Details are below, but this is when you'll play the rounds.

September 16 - 20 - Post your data in the thread we'll set up for that.

September 30 - We'll present our final "findings" with some nice charts and graphs.

Conducting the Experiment

After filling out the data, and ideally during the time frame listed above (though if you want to play one of your Forward Tees rounds tomorrow, go ahead), the experimenters will play two rounds of golf from the same set of super-forward tees:

Round 1 (Aggressive) - Be mildly to obscenely aggressive. Hit your driver fairly often, operating under the assumption that "even if you miss the fairway you'll be close enough to the green to do well, and you can make more birdies and eagles too." Don't make obvious errors like choosing driver when there's a big lake 220-320 yards off the tee, but if there's fairway from the tee to the green, go for it. The same mild aggression applies to second shots on par fives, which might measure as short as 400 yards and which should almost all be under 525 yards from the forward tees.

Round 2 (Conservative) - In this round you'll tee off with 3W, hybrids, even mid-irons. The goal here is to put yourself in the fairway at or just slightly ahead of where a decent drive from your normal tees will put you. So if you drive the ball 260 off the tee and a 450-yard par four becomes a 360-yard par four from the forward tees, tee off with a club that puts you at about 160 to 180 yards in (as opposed to about 190 normally).

Data Form

Please select this text and paste it into the editor, then answer the questions asked to the best of your ability. See the second post for an example.

Course Name :

Course Website :

Course Style :

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope :

Regular Tee Average Score :

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope :

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) :

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) :

For "Course Style" please just describe the course in a few words, like "open" or "wooded" or "desert" or "links" or "penal" or however you'd like. Just keep it to a sentence or so, with as little as one word to describe it.

If you'd like to look up the course ratings, go here: http://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/ .

That's it.

On September 1, we'll launch the "Results" thread and ask you to quote your "Data Form" above and share with us your actual results.

Note on calculating course ratings and slope for short tees that aren't rated for men:

If your forward tees aren't rated for play by men (most aren't), then apply this simple formula to calculate the rating and slope.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

• Locate the nearest set of rated tees for the appropriate gender;

• Determine the yardage difference between the set of tees being played and the rated set of tees;

• Using the following table, find the range that includes the yardage difference;

Add the resulting table values if the unrated tees are longer than the rated tees, or subtract the resulting values if the unrated tees are shorter than the rated tees.

This method may also be used if a player plays a combination of tees. The player first determines the total yardage played then applies the above procedure.

P.S. If you're not sure you can convince your buddies to let you play from the forward tees, have them join this forum and join the experiment!

***iacas*** · August 15, 2012

Course Name : Whispering Woods GC

Course Website : http://whisperingwoodsgc.com/golf/course

Course Style : Parkland, Somewhat Penal if you stray

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6800 / 74.0 / 144

Regular Tee Average Score : 73

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5270 / 67.1 / 138

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 67

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 65

**Spyder** · August 15, 2012

Course Name : Deer Pass Golf Course

Course Website : http://www.deerpassgolf.com/

Course Style : Hilly terrain with many blind shots, OB, and over-kill with Water!

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6250 / 69.3 / 126

Regular Tee Average Score : 82

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5454 / 72.1 / 122

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 74

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 78

**LovinItAll** · August 15, 2012

Course Name : Paiute Golf Resort Course Website : RealPureGolf.com Course Style : Desert Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 71.2/128 (I'll do this on the Sun course) Regular Tee Average Score : 78 (~2 strokes > where I expect my next index revision to be) Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5465/65.8/107 (Red/Ladies) Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 70 (I'm an optimist) Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) 75 I hope guys are honest. I've done this a number of times.

**LovinItAll** · August 15, 2012

I want to make sure I get this: - During the conservative round, our approaches should be about the same length as from our usual tees, right? In other words, guys who drive it pretty straight shouldn't see a ton of improvement if I'm reading it right.

**LuciusWooding** · August 15, 2012

I think this sort of experiment is a really cool idea, and I'll be watching for the results.

That said, I don't think I can afford to participate in anything this summer. I have a half full bag and barely enough money to play a round a month, plus I think my scores could be too inconsistent to offer useful data. If I manage to play a few rounds, I'll post my scores. I probably need to play 2 rounds normally first to see where I am scoring wise.

My thoughts: I'd predict my score wouldn't change much on the different tees, and I think I'd probably score within 2 strokes on aggressive vs. conservative unless there was bad trouble in play a lot. I seem to be able to make par putts most of the time, even when scrambling, but I have trouble with birdies for some reason. That will probably mean I'd have no trouble hitting GIRs and I'd likely make 2 putts from anywhere on the green most of the time. Also, unless I'm way off the fairway I don't get much difference on approaches from the rough if I miss my tee shot, unless it's close enough to require less than a full shot. There's usually no difference in scoring for me if it's a par 3 from different tees, and typically 320-400 yard par 4s all average nearly the same for me.

Certainly some players, depending on their games, will see a difference. Some might not be comfortable with conservative or aggressive play. If someone's dropping lots of strokes on the green, I think they'd likely see similar scores as well. People who struggle to hit GIRs, on the other hand, may find it easier this way or put themselves in better places to scramble, which they could convert into good scores. Tougher courses will likely penalize aggressive shots more overall, so it could lead to a bigger difference. I also think that lower handicaps and more consistent players will provide better data. I also believe average scores might not be too different, but more birdies and eagles will be had from the aggressive round.

***iacas*** · August 15, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

I want to make sure I get this:
- During the conservative round, our approaches should be about the same length as from our usual tees, right? In other words, guys who drive it pretty straight shouldn't see a ton of improvement if I'm reading it right.

Not quite. Within about 30 yards or so, though, yes. So if you normally have 180 you're supposed to hit a club that gives you about 160-ish (150-180).

And nobody drives it pretty straight. :D

C'mon folks. Sign up. It's fun.

**Paradox** · August 16, 2012

Course Name :Gibson Bay

Course Website :www.gibsonbay.com

Course Style :Kind of a parkland/heathland hybrid with lots of mounding, uneven lies, and enough trees in play to make you manage around them.

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope :6508/71/125

Regular Tee Average Score : 84

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope :4869/63.6/102

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) :70

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) :68

**onesome** · August 16, 2012

Course Name: Roddy Ranch

Course Website: http://www.roddyranch.com/

Course Style: Links style,hilly terrain,fast firm greens,windy most of the time

Regular tee yardage/ Slope/ Rating: 6529/135/72.6

Regular Tee average score: 80

Forward tee yardage/rating/slope: 5390/67.4/124

Forward tee predicted score (aggressive): 75

Forward tee predicted score (conservative): 77

**LovinItAll** · August 16, 2012

Not quite. Within about 30 yards or so, though, yes. So if you normally have 180 you're supposed to hit a club that gives you about 160-ish (150-180). [b]And nobody drives it pretty straight. :D[/b] C'mon folks. Sign up. It's fun!!!![/b]

Thanks. That's the thing about us guys who can't hit it out of our shadow...she ain't long, but we can usually find her in the short(-ish) stuff! Seriously, with all the dudes on here that post every day, this thread should be several pages long by now. Not only do I think higher HC'ers would have a blast (everyone, really), but maybe one of the pros or scratch babies (BuckeyeNut, I'm thinkin' about you in particular) can get hot and take it really deep. Somebody's bound to...it's just not gonna be me. Shoot, I'll even send out an authentic copy of a bootlegged DVD of the first episode of The Golden Girls to all eligible contestants. What more could a guy ask for on a cold winter night?!

**lumpuckeroo** · August 16, 2012

Course Name : Leavenworth Country club

Course Website : http://www.greatlifegolf.com/GL/leavenworth.html

Course Style : Parkland, not to penal if you stay out of the trees.

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5925/120/69.5

Regular Tee Average Score : 84

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 4916/110/64.9

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 80

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 78

eedwards · August 16, 2012

Course Name: Valley Pine Country Club

Course Website: valleypinecc.com

Course Style: Tree lined, small greens, not penal

Regular Tee Yardage/Rating/Slope: 6600/70.7/118

Regular Tee Average Score: 78

Forward tee yardage/Rating/Slope: 5075/63.70/101

Forward Tee predicted Score (Agressive Round): 68

Forward Tee Predcited Score (Conservative Round): 74

**Uncle Peter** · August 16, 2012

Course Name : Riverstone Golf Club (9-hole course)

Course Website : www.riverstonegolf.com

Course Style : short but tough, winds along the banks of a river, penal if not accurate

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 4,720/70/124

Regular Tee Average Score : 86

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 3,816/67.8/119

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 81

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 84

**Jimdangles** · August 16, 2012

Couple of questions.

Would it be ok if I didnt finish the round. Maybe only got through 14 or so. I walk 18 after work most days and have played 17 and 18 in the dark the last two times but I consider myself lucky to have finished. These are the only rounds I play by myself. I can start today if that is the case.

And were not talking about playing pumpkin tees correct? Are we playing most forward mens or should I play womens tees?

**Spyder** · August 16, 2012

Originally Posted by iacas

Experiment #1: 2012 Forward Tees

This is the first in what will become an ongoing series of "experiments." In the future, we may have "experiments" that have you guys, the "experimenters" or "Sand Trap Scientists" or whatever the heck we call this in the end, doing things like playing one round of golf where you commit to making no swings at more than 75% power, or playing with three clubs, or trying to do different kinds of things (some may not even be on the golf course, but could be at a practice session, etc.).

Members who participate in this will get a fun little badge beneath their posts:

The goal of this experiment is to play two rounds from the most forward tees you can play on your course, each using a different style of play, and see what happens. You'll all be asked to form a hypothesis in the form of predicting your two scores and then you'll write some notes on how the experiment went in the end.

(remainder of post cut)

I take this as meaning the very shortest yardage that your course has. Whether they're gold, red, "pumpkin", whatever. The most forward tees that are set up.

(EDIT: I'm not being an ass by highlighting it. I just want to be sure that I copied Erik's post so that he can correct me if I'm wrong)

**Jimdangles** · August 16, 2012

Originally Posted by Spyder

I take this as meaning the very shortest yardage that your course has. Whether they're gold, red, "pumpkin", whatever. The most forward tees that are set up.

(EDIT: I'm not being an ass by highlighting it. I just want to be sure that I copied Erik's post so that he can correct me if I'm wrong)

I read that too but pumpkins can turn a course into a par 3 course basically. I was thinking womens tees and thats what I was planning for and assuming if he doesnt respond soon.

**Valleygolfer** · August 16, 2012

Couple of questions.

Would it be ok if I didnt finish the round. Maybe only got through 14 or so. I walk 18 after work most days and have played 17 and 18 in the dark the last two times but I consider myself lucky to have finished. These are the only rounds I play by myself. I can start today if that is the case.

And were not talking about playing pumpkin tees correct? Are we playing most forward mens or should I play womens tees?

Less distance, you can probably get it finished :-P

**Jimdangles** · August 16, 2012

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

Less distance, you can probably get it finished

Finishing doesnt really depend on me. Its always decided by the walking 4 some that I happen to get right behind every time.

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Players Needed!!! Join the TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment!!!

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Experiment #1: 2012 Forward Tees

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