Declaring Your Own Abnormal Ground and GUR.

**impactswing** · February 14, 2014

I've played a lot of golf over the years, if golfers would realize how much of a course is GUR or abnormal ground conditions, most people would play better. The simple fact is pros play pristine courses, and GUR or Abnormal conditions they drop. Yet on low grade courses you bomb a drive and in the middle of the fairway you got no grass or torn up areas. The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies. In fairways you should take relief, pros do.

***iacas*** · February 14, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by impactswing

The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies.

The knowledgeable golfer takes relief only when it's appropriate.

In other words, almost never.

Bold added to the second quote (by me).

Quote:

An “ abnormal ground condition ” is any casual water , ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal , a reptile or a bird.

Quote:

Ground Under Repair

“ Ground under repair ” is any part of the course so marked by order of the Committee or so declared by its authorized representative. All ground and any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing within the ground under repair are part of the ground under repair . Ground under repair includes material piled for removal and a hole made by a greenkeeper, even if not so marked. Grass cuttings and other material left on the course that have been abandoned and are not intended to be removed are not ground under repair unless so marked.

When the margin of ground under repair is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the ground under repair , and the margin of the ground under repair is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. When both stakes and lines are used to indicate ground under repair , the stakes identify the ground under repair and the lines define the margin of the ground under repair . When the margin of ground under repair is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is in the ground under repair . The margin of ground under repair extends vertically downwards but not upwards.

A ball is in ground under repair when it lies in or any part of it touches the ground under repair .

Stakes used to define the margin of or identify ground under repair are obstructions .

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule prohibiting play from ground under repair or an environmentally-sensitive area defined as ground under repair .

**Asheville** · February 14, 2014

I've played a lot of golf over the years, if golfers would realize how much of a course is GUR or abnormal ground conditions, most people would play better. The simple fact is pros play pristine courses, and GUR or Abnormal conditions they drop. Yet on low grade courses you bomb a drive and in the middle of the fairway you got no grass or torn up areas. The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies.

In fairways you should take relief, pros do.

The "knowledgeable" golfer properly plays a second ball under Rule 3-3, then checks with the Committee at the conclusion of the round. The "knowledgeable" golfer doesn't just go around making things up. The "knowledgeable" golfer doesn't care what the players in the circus do. He knows that it's only show business.

**Golfingdad** · February 14, 2014

This came up at my last tournament: The first fairway had a large area deemed GUR. It was virtually the entire width of the fairway (30-35 yards wide, basically) and about 25 yards long, and it was pretty much centered in the landing area. It was very clearly marked (roped and painted white line).

If you were to put one near the center of the fairway at the far end of the painted area, to take proper relief you'd either have to go into the rough, or back 25 yards. That hardly seems fair (I know, I know ;)), so I wonder;

Are you REQUIRED to take relief from GUR? I only ask for clarification because Rule 25-1b uses the word "may," but then 25-1b(i), (ii), and (iii) use the word "must."

I assume that since the first part of the rule say "may" that you are not required to take relief, and that the "musts" in the following portions only apply once you have made the decision to take relief.

On the other hand, in areas where the grass has just been seeded or sodded, I can't imagine that a greenskeeper would be too fond of people hacking it out of there.

**Fourputt** · February 14, 2014

I've played a lot of golf over the years, if golfers would realize how much of a course is GUR or abnormal ground conditions, most people would play better. The simple fact is pros play pristine courses, and GUR or Abnormal conditions they drop. Yet on low grade courses you bomb a drive and in the middle of the fairway you got no grass or torn up areas. The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies.

In fairways you should take relief, pros do.

The knowledgeable golfer takes relief when it's allowed under the rules, not when he decides that it's "fair". What the pros do has nothing to do with what is right in any other situation. Ground under repair must either be marked as such, or the committee must make a ruling. Best case, play a second ball under Rule 3-3 and take the case to higher authority. What is abnormal ground on an exclusive private club course may be perfectly normal on your local muni. If it's marked GUR then you get relief, otherwise, play it as it lies.

This came up at my last tournament: The first fairway had a large area deemed GUR. It was virtually the entire width of the fairway (30-35 yards wide, basically) and about 25 yards long, and it was pretty much centered in the landing area. It was very clearly marked (roped and painted white line).

If you were to put one near the center of the fairway at the far end of the painted area, to take proper relief you'd either have to go into the rough, or back 25 yards. That hardly seems fair (I know, I know ;)), so I wonder;

Are you REQUIRED to take relief from GUR? I only ask for clarification because Rule 25-1b uses the word "may," but then 25-1b(i), (ii), and (iii) use the word "must."

I assume that since the first part of the rule say "may" that you are not required to take relief, and that the "musts" in the following portions only apply once you have made the decision to take relief.

On the other hand, in areas where the grass has just been seeded or sodded, I can't imagine that a greenskeeper would be too fond of people hacking it out of there.

You are only required to take relief if the area is so designated. Many courses will have a standing policy in effect that in all sodded or seeded areas (excluding divot holes), play is not allowed.

**Asheville** · February 14, 2014

This came up at my last tournament: The first fairway had a large area deemed GUR. It was virtually the entire width of the fairway (30-35 yards wide, basically) and about 25 yards long, and it was pretty much centered in the landing area. It was very clearly marked (roped and painted white line).

If you were to put one near the center of the fairway at the far end of the painted area, to take proper relief you'd either have to go into the rough, or back 25 yards. That hardly seems fair (I know, I know ;)), so I wonder;

Are you REQUIRED to take relief from GUR? I only ask for clarification because Rule 25-1b uses the word "may," but then 25-1b(i), (ii), and (iii) use the word "must."

I assume that since the first part of the rule say "may" that you are not required to take relief, and that the "musts" in the following portions only apply once you have made the decision to take relief.

On the other hand, in areas where the grass has just been seeded or sodded, I can't imagine that a greenskeeper would be too fond of people hacking it out of there.

You're inclination is correct ... "may" means may not must. (There is such an animal as GUR from which play is prohibited, but that condition must be made known to the players in advance.) Secondly, I know you might feel gypped by the poor conditions but they're the same for all competitors.

**impactswing** · February 14, 2014

You are not forced to take relief ever. Well some enviornmentally sensitive areas might get you fined by cops. Lol A local rule might change gur, but its an abnormal course condition. On your local course gur would be due to excessive play with poor maintenance. Fairways are supposed to have well maintained grass. But most courses outside of very expensive courses are not tour level courses pros have in their rotation. If pros played at your local course half the place would be GUR.

**Fourputt** · February 14, 2014

You are not forced to take relief ever.

Not true. There are many times when relief is mandatory for the protection of the course. Flower beds, new sod, newly seeded areas, young trees.

Come again? First of all, the term "fairway" is not a part of the Rules. There is nothing in the rules which actually defines it. Therefore there cannot be any expectation under the rules for the condition of a part of the course which has never been officially recognized.

**Golfingdad** · February 14, 2014

You're inclination is correct ... "may" means may not must. (There is such an animal as GUR from which play is prohibited, but that condition must be made known to the players in advance.)

Thank you. (You too @Fourputt ) Good to know.

.... That hardly seems fair (I know, I know ;)),

Secondly, I know you might feel gypped by the poor conditions but they're the same for all competitors.

Not at all. That's what I meant by the "I know, I know" part.

Also ... I was in the rough on that hole so it was a moo point for me. (For you @Ernest Jones ... I watched Friends too ;))

**turtleback** · February 15, 2014

You are not forced to take relief ever.

Well some enviornmentally sensitive areas might get you fined by cops. Lol

A local rule might change gur, but its an abnormal course condition. On your local course gur would be due to excessive play with poor maintenance. Fairways are supposed to have well maintained grass.

But most courses outside of very expensive courses are not tour level courses pros have in their rotation.

If pros played at your local course half the place would be GUR.

This is the Rules forum. People come here to learn about and ask questions about the Rules. Your statement has very little to do with the rules.

If you are going to post here you should consider that advocating ignoring the Rules is likely to get a somewhat hostile reaction.

**David in FL** · February 15, 2014

**Asheville** · February 15, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by impactswing

I've played a lot of golf over the years, if golfers would realize how much of a course is GUR or abnormal ground conditions, most people would play better. The simple fact is pros play pristine courses, and GUR or Abnormal conditions they drop. Yet on low grade courses you bomb a drive and in the middle of the fairway you got no grass or torn up areas. The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies.

In fairways you should take relief, pros do.

Is that how you got to that "zero" handicap?

I wondered, too, then decided that "zero" might mean that, unlike many here who have one handicap, that he has zero handicap. Or perhaps he's indicating that he has zero interest in handicaps.

**rogolf** · February 15, 2014

I've played a lot of golf over the years, if golfers would realize how much of a course is GUR or abnormal ground conditions, most people would play better. The simple fact is pros play pristine courses, and GUR or Abnormal conditions they drop. Yet on low grade courses you bomb a drive and in the middle of the fairway you got no grass or torn up areas. The knowledgeable golfer takes relief, the purist who cant break 90 hollers play it as it lies. In fairways you should take relief, pros do.

As others have indicated, your opinion is not correct. "Abnormal ground conditions" mean ground conditions that are abnormal for the course that you are playing on, not course conditions that you might see on TV. And ground under repair can only be declared by the Committee or its representative. Therefore, you either play it as it lies, or proceed under Rule 3-3 and take your chances.

**impactswing** · February 15, 2014

Go play in some money or pro events. It's common to lift clean and place on all short hair, that's fairways, aprons and fringes. That's how many pro tours run, since they understand 99% of courses are not as pristine as the courses pros play on tour. Almost every money game I play in is lift, clean and place. So now why would I play it down on courses that are badly maintained. If you really want to know what you can score, play pristine lies in fairways like pros play.

**Fourputt** · February 15, 2014

Go play in some money or pro events. It's common to lift clean and place on all short hair, that's fairways, aprons and fringes. That's how many pro tours run, since they understand 99% of courses are not as pristine as the courses pros play on tour. Almost every money game I play in is lift, clean and place. So now why would I play it down on courses that are badly maintained. If you really want to know what you can score, play pristine lies in fairways like pros play.

So, you play with a bunch of wusses who don't believe in playing by the actual Rules? The preferred lies local rule was created to allow play during extreme conditions, not just to make life easy for every Tom, Dick and Harry who hits the links. You have a very skewed view of what that provision is really for, and apparently no clue what comprises golf in the real world.

***iacas*** · February 15, 2014

Go play in some money or pro events. It's common to lift clean and place on all short hair, that's fairways, aprons and fringes. That's how many pro tours run, since they understand 99% of courses are not as pristine as the courses pros play on tour. Almost every money game I play in is lift, clean and place. So now why would I play it down on courses that are badly maintained. If you really want to know what you can score, play pristine lies in fairways like pros play.

Just because everyone you play with is a cheater too doesn't mean you aren't a cheater. You are (too).

**David in FL** · February 15, 2014

Go play in some money or pro events. It's common to lift clean and place on all short hair, that's fairways, aprons and fringes. That's how many pro tours run, since they understand 99% of courses are not as pristine as the courses pros play on tour. Almost every money game I play in is lift, clean and place. So now why would I play it down on courses that are badly maintained. If you really want to know what you can score, play pristine lies in fairways like pros play.

Let's play, for whatever you want. I'll take my 6 strokes. All I ask is that we play golf, by the rules....

**saevel25** · February 15, 2014

Go play in some money or pro events. It's common to lift clean and place on all short hair, that's fairways, aprons and fringes. That's how many pro tours run, since they understand 99% of courses are not as pristine as the courses pros play on tour. Almost every money game I play in is lift, clean and place. So now why would I play it down on courses that are badly maintained. If you really want to know what you can score, play pristine lies in fairways like pros play.

Because I rather play golf by the rules original intent.

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Declaring Your Own Abnormal Ground and GUR.

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