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Balls get stuck in trees, so tournament director wants them cut down.

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sacramento Bee
 

If the skinny cypress trees at Ancil Hofman just off the eighth fairway and right of the ninth green aren’t removed before next year’s Memorial Amateur, tournament founder/director John Rochelle said he will mark them as “ground under repair.”

 

Derek Trofimczuk’s tee shot on No. 9 – his final hole Sunday – stuck in a cypress. Because it was 30 feet up, the ball couldn’t be identified and Trofimczuk was forced to declare it lost. The resulting triple bogey caused the 20-year-old from Cameron Park to miss the cut by one stroke.

 

In the final round Monday, Jonny Baxter’s drive on No. 8 lodged in the cypress and caused the UC Davis senior to incur a one-stroke penalty for an unplayable lie. Baxter, who tied for third, was in second place at the time.

 

“For guys to be penalized like that, I can’t see the equity,” Rochelle said. “If the trees were 20 yards right or left, that’s a different ballgame.”

 

If the trees survive, Rochelle said he would mark them so no penalties would be assessed.

 

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/05/27/6436797/making-the-rounds-memorial-amateur.html

 

See pic below. I believe they're talking about the trees in the circled area. #8 is the right-to-left par 4 above the trees in question, #9 is the left-to-right par 3 below them. I've played this course and know these holes well, but all you need is the picture to know that if you're in the trees it means you've hit a bad shot. 

 

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

 

 


Edited by sacm3bill - 5/28/14 at 1:13pm
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post
 

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

 

Yes.

 

But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post
 

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

 

Yes.

 

But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

 

Yep, and wanting them cut down even more so.  If you don't like trees, play a links course.

post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Yes.

But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

If trees were GIR my stats would be awesome. Putting stats may take a dive, though. a2_wink.gif
post #5 of 14

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

 

Unrelated ... I think Italian Cypress trees are kind of ugly, so I say hack away!  Put up something else in their place.

 

Hey, @bplewis24 ... you play AH, don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

 

Oh, and just to be silly, I think instead of drawing a white circle around the trees to mark them, he should "flock" them like they do at the Christmas Tree farms when you want your tree to look "snowy." :beer:

post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

 

Because you don't know with certainty until you've seen it. It may be under a leaf or under a golf cart.

That rule has to cover every situation.

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

 

 

 

Realistically, though how often do your know your ball is in the tree? Usually the sight lines are obscured enough that all you can do is hazard a best guess. Just because you see a ball near the same branches that your shot went towards doesn't mean that ball couldn't belong to a competitor who played the hole before you. I guess there is the possibility that your see your ball rattle around some upper branches before dropping and settling into a lower rung, but that is such a rare scenario, that I can't imagine changing a rule over it.

 

It's funny that you should bring that up, though because I had a similar scenario come up in a round last weekend. I flared my drive right into a tree about 100 yards down the right side of the tee box. After a few minutes of searching in every possible direction, I "knew" it must have settled in the branches somewhere and went back to re-tee 3. It was only a few minutes later that I drove down the left side of the fairway to approach my pulled 2nd drive, when I saw my first ball nestled down in the rough. Apparently, unseen by everyone, my first drive had hit a branch and ricocheted across the fairway about 60 yards away. I guess the moral of the story is, you never know unless you know!

post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
 

Because you don't know with certainty until you've seen it. It may be under a leaf or under a golf cart.

That rule has to cover every situation.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post
 

 

Realistically, though how often do your know your ball is in the tree? Usually the sight lines are obscured enough that all you can do is hazard a best guess. Just because you see a ball near the same branches that your shot went towards doesn't mean that ball couldn't belong to a competitor who played the hole before you. I guess there is the possibility that your see your ball rattle around some upper branches before dropping and settling into a lower rung, but that is such a rare scenario, that I can't imagine changing a rule over it.

 

It's funny that you should bring that up, though because I had a similar scenario come up in a round last weekend. I flared my drive right into a tree about 100 yards down the right side of the tee box. After a few minutes of searching in every possible direction, I "knew" it must have settled in the branches somewhere and went back to re-tee 3. It was only a few minutes later that I drove down the left side of the fairway to approach my pulled 2nd drive, when I saw my first ball nestled down in the rough. Apparently, unseen by everyone, my first drive had hit a branch and ricocheted across the fairway about 60 yards away. I guess the moral of the story is, you never know unless you know!

Yeah, I guess I was just going by the tournament director's claim that implied they clearly knew that kids ball was in the tree.  But when there aren't several sets of eyes watching in a tournament, I agree, there is no way to know if your ball didn't come out, or if it came out in a direction other than where you were all looking.  Except the occasions where its a palm tree that hasn't been groomed well, and you watch it go into one of the pockets between the trunk and a dead frond. I guess that's just your bad luck.

 

I still say, though, that cypress trees aren't terribly attractive and they should be replaced. ;)

post #9 of 14

Keep your ball in the fairway.  How is this any different then having a water hazard along the fairway?

post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

 

Unrelated ... I think Italian Cypress trees are kind of ugly, so I say hack away!  Put up something else in their place.

 

Hey, @bplewis24 ... you play AH, don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

 

Oh, and just to be silly, I think instead of drawing a white circle around the trees to mark them, he should "flock" them like they do at the Christmas Tree farms when you want your tree to look "snowy." :beer:

 

Just because you see a ball in the tree, that doesn't mean that it's yours.  And just because you see your ball enter a tree, doesn't mean that it didn't come back out.  I've experienced both situations, the latter one many times.  I've seem many balls hit into a tree where we didn't see it come out, even though it did come out.  I've also seen a ball hit into a spruce tree and stay in, while at the same time it knocked out a different ball.  

 

If the player can't identify a ball as his, then it's lost.  

 

As to the decision by the tournament director, he sounds like a real genius.  Even if he does as he has threatened, the player must still have virtual certainty that his ball is in the tree or the end result is the same as it is now.

post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob0225 View Post
 

Keep your ball in the fairway.  How is this any different then having a water hazard along the fairway?

It's not ... good point.  All water hazards near fairways should be cut down as well!!!!  Golf should be played on an infinitely long and wide bocce ball court!! :beer:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Just because you see a ball in the tree, that doesn't mean that it's yours.  And just because you see your ball enter a tree, doesn't mean that it didn't come back out.  I've experienced both situations, the latter one many times.  I've seem many balls hit into a tree where we didn't see it come out, even though it did come out.  I've also seen a ball hit into a spruce tree and stay in, while at the same time it knocked out a different ball.

 

If the player can't identify a ball as his, then it's lost.

 

As to the decision by the tournament director, he sounds like a real genius.  Even if he does as he has threatened, the player must still have virtual certainty that his ball is in the tree or the end result is the same as it is now.

Yeah, makes sense.  It's just the most frustrating thing ever.  I'm already irritated that I hit such a horrible shot, and now you're just going to swallow my ball?  Stupid flippin tree!!

post #12 of 14

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!  The 8th hole is one of my favorite holes!  Specifically because of that tree there!  Sam, I believe you circled the wrong tree(s).  The one you circled is to the left of the 8th (top) fairway, and to the left of the 9th (bottom) fairway.  The big tree that I'm thinking of that typically causes problems for people on the 8th hole is the very large tree across the fairway, above and to the right of the tree you circled.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Hey, @bplewis24 ... you play AH, don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

 

I've played this hole (8th) many, many times.  One of the reasons it's my favorite is because I hit the ball high (usually) even with my driver.  I've generally been able to hit it over the tree on the right (above the fairway) even if I push it right.  From the tips I'm sure it would be much more difficult.  However, some days if I'm worried about hitting it into the tree, I'll take less than driver and leave it short of the tree.

 

Honestly, I don't find it to be that difficult of a hole.  It's not that far, and unless you get stuck directly behind the tree (or apparently in it), you can still reach the green.  And bailing out to the left presents no real danger at all except a small bunker (in the circle that Sam drew).  And if you get it over the tree, it's so wide open that even being in the rough presents an opportunity for birdie.

 

Lastly, the guy who got stuck in a tree on the 9th hole must have hit a horrendous shot, worthy of a bogey for sure.  The tree circled in the above picture would NOT be in play for a tee shot on that par 3, so it must be the tree on the right side of the green (in fact the article states that it was "and right of the ninth green").  You can see it pictured at the very bottom of the frame, below the greenside bunker.  That has to be at least 20 yards away from the green on what is typically about a 200 yard par 3 (for me it's more like 180 from the blues).  Not saying triple was warranted, but I've never seen anybody come close to hitting that tree before.  He hit a horrible shot.

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post
 

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!  The 8th hole is one of my favorite holes!  Specifically because of that tree there!  Sam, I believe you circled the wrong tree(s).  The one you circled is to the left of the 8th (top) fairway, and to the left of the 9th (bottom) fairway.  The big tree that I'm thinking of that typically causes problems for people on the 8th hole is the very large tree across the fairway, above and to the right of the tree you circled.

 

Hey Brandon,

 

Hmm, well I was thinking the author was talking about a single set of trees that were in play on both holes, which would therefore mean something between the 2 holes - but you could be right in your interpretation of 2 different sets of trees. Although the description "skinny cypress" tree doesn't match the one on the right of the 8th fairway you're talking about. <shrug>

 

(It's Bill, not Sam btw - but no worries.)

 

Great point by Rick above - marking trees GUR doesn't remove the responsibility of still having to identify your ball. They tourney director is prob just frustrated about the incidents and lashing out, and either isn't thinking clearly or isn't up on the rules.

post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post
 

 

(It's Bill, not Sam btw - but no worries.)

 

Apologies!  I still read your user handle as "sam" almost every time I see it.

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