Tommy Fleetwood is Overrated

[trainsmokegolf]

Great iron player, great friend of Molinari.

[leftybutnotPM]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:52 PM, Phil McGleno said:

Overrated. And son-I have not cared about the Ryder Cup since the Ryder Cup started. It is an exhibition.-The golf there does not matter. And Francesco carried Tommy Hairstyle.

 

Sorry your professional career didn't work out as well as you would have liked, Phil.

But you can feel better about yourself by bagging the current players who actually have achieved something. Funny that. Projection much?

In two years you can write things like; "Viktor Hovland,  I mean, what has this guy actually ever done?" if he doesn't win a major or three.

I don't really see the reason for such negativity. A lot of people get close but never have a chance to actually smoke the cigar.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[boogielicious]

7 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Sorry your professional career didn't work out as well as you would have liked, Phil.

But you can feel better about yourself by bagging the current players who actually have achieved something. Funny that. Projection much?

In two years you can write things like; "Viktor Hovland,  I mean, what has this guy actually ever done?" if he doesn't win a major or three.

I don't really see the reason for such negativity. A lot of people get close but never have a chance to actually smoke the cigar.

 

I don’t see the reason for you to be rude and sanctimonious. Phil has an opinion and has played on the PGA Tour and frankly know a ton more about pro golf than you. What have you done?

[leftybutnotPM]

25 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I don’t see the reason for you to be rude and sanctimonious. Phil has an opinion and has played on the PGA Tour and frankly know a ton more about pro golf than you. What have you done?

Didn't get the irony?

Your point  is exactly my point. I want to know why he feels the need to be critical of players just because they haven't achieved to the expectation of some people on a forum.

He should know more than anyone how hard it is. The fact that he is a great advocate for the game means he should be above it. I'll bet you didn't write a post criticising him for calling Fleetwood "Tommy Haircut", or saying they've done "nothing".

Edited June 14, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Didn't get the irony?

Your point  is exactly my point. I want to know why he feels the need to be critical of players just because they haven't achieved to the expectation of some people on a forum.

He should know more than anyone how hard it is. The fact that he is a great advocate for the game means he should be above it. I'll bet you didn't write a post criticising him for calling Fleetwood "Tommy Haircut", or saying they've done "nothing".

Phil has no doubt seen and heard hundreds of players picked as the “next” great player while he was playing and since. He’s seen them come and go. The really great ones meet expectations and actually win majors. There is no irony there. Not sure you understand what irony means. That is defined as experience. 

[Phil McGleno]

3 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Sorry your professional career didn't work out as well as you would have liked, Phil.

For being a club pro and instructor the dozens of PGA Tour events I played in went pretty darn well considering I really had no business playing in em.-No regrets here at all. My career has been awesome.

3 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

But you can feel better about yourself by bagging the current players who actually have achieved something. Funny that. Projection much?

No.-Not at all. I feel he is over-rated. Look at how many people picked him to win a major this year.

3 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

In two years you can write things like; "Viktor Hovland,  I mean, what has this guy actually ever done?" if he doesn't win a major or three.

Ummmmmmmm Tommy Fleetwood turned pro in 2010 dude.-Do not put words in my mouth. Viktor is beating Tommy at the US Open right now.

3 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

I don't really see the reason for such negativity. A lot of people get close but never have a chance to actually smoke the cigar.

He is overrated IMO-That is the reason.

2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Didn't get the irony?

Your point  is exactly my point. I want to know why he feels the need to be critical of players just because they haven't achieved to the expectation of some people on a forum.

He should know more than anyone how hard it is. The fact that he is a great advocate for the game means he should be above it. I'll bet you didn't write a post criticising him for calling Fleetwood "Tommy Haircut", or saying they've done "nothing".

What irony?-There is none here.

He is overrrated-That is what the title says and that is my opinion.

Could not be much clearer about it.

And I never called him Haircut.

[leftybutnotPM]

4 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

 

And I never called him Haircut.

My bad -  you called him Tommy Hairstyle.

I posted your major record and of course it's better than (presumably) every other member of this forum. But would people who know nothing about the game rate it?

My point is - how would you like to be regarded as having been a failure when everything else you have done in and for the game has been positive?

I seriously don't think that a few bloggers, Youtubers and forum members ever gave Fleetwood major traction as a potential Best Player Without A major even in another decade of great play on the European Tour, a couple of Ryder Cups and a few good final rounds in Majors.

Much as he makes me want to vomit every time I see him, I would rate Kuchar and a dozen others above Fleetwod and I think that would be a common way of thinking.

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

I posted your major record and of course it's better than (presumably) every other member of this forum.

Read his signature dude.

[leftybutnotPM]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Read his signature dude.

Well that was certainly enlightening.  Probably should've done it earlier.

Edited June 15, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[MacDutch]

Go Tommy, go!

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Go Tommy, go!

You do realize he can win and it doesn’t change an opinion in the past, right?

Nobody made predictions.

[MacDutch]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

You do realize he can win and it doesn’t change an opinion in the past, right?

Nobody made predictions.

True, it doesn’t change an opinion in the past. And because its an opinion there is no 100% true/untrue. But my opinion on Tommy was and is just way better 😛

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

True, it doesn’t change an opinion in the past. And because its an opinion there is no 100% true/untrue. But my opinion on Tommy was and is just way better 😛

Still over-rated.

[ScouseJohnny]

Something that wasn't addressed in the original thread is who, exactly, overrates him, in order for him to be "overrated?"

I don't think anyone thinks he's the next Tiger or even about to become another Koepka. Given he's English, I don't think anyone is billing him as the next Faldo.

He's a very good golfer who is more than a journeyman, often bubbling under in the majors, and may or may not win one soon.

Is Fowler overrated?

Do Bubba's two Masters wins save him from being overrated?

Rory's early career majors prevent him from being labeled overrated. I suspect the criticism that will be leveled at Rory's door when he retires will be underachievement.

Tommy may win on Sunday, in which case, to many, unless he wins a lot more, he'll still be overrated. If he finishes second, he's definitely overrated.

I don't see this guy being spoken of in the same breath as Seve. That's OK, because I don't think he is. He's a solid player, often up there in the majors (for now), and for him to win one, or even a couple, would be nice to see.

He's not overrated (in terms of imagining him winning a major) because, at least for now, he's often in the hunt on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by ScouseJohnny

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Something that wasn't addressed in the original thread is who, exactly, overrates him, in order for him to be "overrated?"

I think it was addressed:

On 6/10/2019 at 6:40 PM, Phil McGleno said:

Oh bullhonkey-He was a hot pick to win some of the last majors the last two years. Picked by several people.

Page 1 has his name nine times.-Page 2 six times.

And I do not just mean people here- I mean media people too.

So…

11 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Is Fowler overrated?

Do Bubba's two Masters wins save him from being overrated?

Kinda off topic.

11 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Rory's early career majors prevent him from being labeled overrated.

And yet…

 

[ScouseJohnny]

Quote

He was a hot pick to win some of the last majors the last two years. Picked by several people.

That rather proves the point I was trying to make, as opposed to rebutting it.

Read the sentence you quoted: it's scarcely universal, effusive praise, is it?. It describes a "decent chance" not a "dead cert."

Tommy's a decent golfer, whose talent and form suggest that he may pick up a major soon. I don't think anyone's headed to Vegas to put their house and 401k on him.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

That rather proves the point I was trying to make, as opposed to rebutting it.

No, it doesn't.

He was over-rated. He'd not done much of anything, and yet people (in the media, here at TST, etc.) were picking him to win major championships. Despite not even having won a European Tour event in the past 15 months or whatever.

[skydog]

Fleetwood must be a TST reader. 

Good call Phil.