Sweeping Generalizations After One Week of Experiences

[PerfectStriking]

Nearly anytime someone asks for advice saying that they are only fading their driver and hitting everything else straight a lot of responses seem to be it's a swing fault, this is the most obvious club related issue ever, and probably 80% of the time not to do with the swing, just gone through this with a lot of golf "pros" trying to sell me on changing my swing instead of what is obviously a club issue. I even told them that I hit an old burner 50g reax stiff straight and high and an newer 60g stiff fuijikura in an M2 further but lower and fade, and the penny still doesn't drop. Just don't go near anyone who has teaching qualifications if you are looking to solve an obvious equipment problem IMHO, paying for someone with shaft fitting ability that assures you they are not going to talk about swing changes is worth the money IMHO.

[iacas]

Huh?

First, fading your driver every time sounds great. Definition of a pattern.

Slicing on the other hand, most often, has nothing to do with equipment.

[boogielicious]

6 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Nearly anytime someone asks for advice saying that they are only fading their driver and hitting everything else straight a lot of responses seem to be it's a swing fault, this is the most obvious club related issue ever, and probably 80% of the time not to do with the swing, just gone through this with a lot of golf "pros" trying to sell me on changing my swing instead of what is obviously a club issue. I even told them that I hit an old burner 50g reax stiff straight and high and an newer 60g stiff fuijikura in an M2 further but lower and fade, and the penny still doesn't drop. Just don't go near anyone who has teaching qualifications if you are looking to solve an obvious equipment problem IMHO, paying for someone with shaft fitting ability that assures you they are not going to talk about swing changes is worth the money IMHO.

I think that without seeing their swing or the actual shot shape, it would be hard to tell. A fade can be a preferred shape, especially if it is high. My shape right now with the driver is a push or slight push draw with a slight fade happening at times. As long as it goes where I want it is fine. My irons and other woods are draws.

There are lots of pros who hit fade with driver and draw with irons BTW.

[PerfectStriking]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

Huh?

First, fading your driver every time sounds great. Definition of a pattern.

Slicing on the other hand, most often, has nothing to do with equipment.

Thanks Erik, yes I agree if I was hitting big slices I would say it was something I should fix before I looked at the club as the issue, but I suppose my recent posts show my frustration with my experiences of the last week or so as I have gone to many places where their are some golf teachers who also sell equipment on driving ranges as I really don't like indoor computer bays. What I experienced was really terrible they just seemed to want to change my swing, I really don't want to change a swing that produces what I think is the best distances I can achieve at my age nearly 50 with all other clubs I hit my 7 iron 165+ yards,my 3 wood 250 yards with 230 yards of carry, and all very straight and consistent flight and height, I just don't think that is in anyway unacceptable, so why would I change this swing to just make 1 club work, but that is what these guys, at least 2 of them definitely told me. Just really horrible experience IMHO. I should add there is the occasionally slice 1 in 4ish and I know what causes that I am trying to pull too hard to stop the low fade and that causes me to try to close my hands aggressively reacting to the club that is a little too harsh for me and that causes it, no one will listen so I give up and am buying a few shafts I believe will work on eBay if that doesn't work will go to a pro fitter.

Edited July 15, 2019 by PerfectStriking

[iacas]

So you make sweeping claims about what “golf pros” would do based on your experiences of the last week?

And you still haven’t posted your actual swing?

Okay dude.

P.S. You might come over the top and hit low pulls and little fades that go far but aren’t necessarily the best shots. It may very well be your swing. Probably is in fact as I can play with my wife’s clubs and beat you.

[David in FL]

It’s almost always the Indian, not the arrow.

Sorry, but those who try to fix problems with equipment changes without first addressing issues with the swing itself are generally doomed to fail.  

But yeah, there’s nothing at all wrong with a consistent fade, and if that’s all you’re worried about you’re in pretty good shape!

[PerfectStriking]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

Probably is in fact as I can play with my wife’s clubs and beat you.

Maybe your wife's clubs are great clubs who knows, I'd probably swing them better than yours right 🙂 The point is not everything is a swing problem and you unfortunately just reaffirmed that every teaching pro thinks that as the first reason.

19 minutes ago, David in FL said:

It’s almost always the Indian, not the arrow.

 

Native American 🙂 Indians are sub continental Asians, the European explorer who thought he found a shortcut to India mis-named them thus

Edited July 15, 2019 by PerfectStriking

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

The point is not everything is a swing problem

But most of the time it is.

6 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

and you unfortunately just reaffirmed that every teaching pro thinks that as the first reason.

What is unfortunate about him reaffirming something that can be proven to be true?

You are making some pretty broad and sweeping generalizations based on a really really small sample size of your own personal experiences. 

[Jeremie Boop]

Honestly, what's worse, a person selling you a, probably, pretty expensive piece of equipment which may not be the answer, OR someone taking a bit of time to make sure it's not an issue with your swing that would be much cheaper to fix with a few lessons or free if they are being nice?

I have a local guy I buy all my stuff from. He's an instructor, and he talked me out of buying a new driver in the past by showing me that no matter what club he put in my hands the result was basically the same. Maybe that's what you needed, someone who will allow you to try all the clubs you want in order to prove/disprove the idea that it's the club and not your swing.

[PerfectStriking]

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves, so I'll stick with my belief I've got a shaft problem easily fixed. Will let you know in a few weeks who was right ok 🙂 and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

[PerfectStriking]

17 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I have a local guy I buy all my stuff from. He's an instructor, and he talked me out of buying a new driver in the past by showing me that no matter what club he put in my hands the result was basically the same. 

"no matter what club... same" if you were slicing or fading low he's misleading you because if he put a weak ladies flex in your hands your slice or low fade would most likely not be the result. Wouldn't be the right club for you, but he didn't explain why did he.

[David in FL]

14 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves, so I'll stick with my belief I've got a shaft problem easily fixed. Will let you know in a few weeks who was right ok 🙂 and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

What people are saying, is that without seeing your swing, we cannot tell if it’s a swing problem. However, in the vast majority of cases, problems are much more likely the result of swing issues than equipment.

Of course, golf equipment manufacturers stay in business because a lot of people sincerely believe that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with their golf game that can’t be cured with their checkbook...  So, if nothing else, you’re in good company.  

[ncates00]

15 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves, so I'll stick with my belief I've got a shaft problem easily fixed. Will let you know in a few weeks who was right ok 🙂 and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

Dude, you've totally missed what everyone has said.  People have said that there is nothing wrong with a fade, so long as it isn't a slice, to which you agreed.  They have also stated that more often than not, issues are swing-related; that doesn't mean issues cannot arise from equipment.  Being properly fitted for your clubs can make a difference; no one has disputed that.  Nonetheless, you did above complain about a 1/4 chance of a slice; that is not an equipment issue and you are either a) not honestly evaluating your own game or b) lying in saying you hit everything else so fantastic all the time.  Things to consider with driver- have you been on a good launch monitor to check your delivery?  Have you checked strike?

I know there are some people out there trying whatever they can to make a sale, but making the broad generalizations you have and acting the way you are is very ass-holish.  People on this site are very helpful and will give a honest opinion.  

Further, I bet if you blindtested clubs and shafts etc, you'd be surprised what was best for you.  Crossfield has loads of videos dispelling myths like shafts and flex etc.

[klineka]

19 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves

Nobody has said both of those things in this thread. In fact, nobody other than yourself has said that this probably isn't a swing problem.

19 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

Nobody in this thread has contradicted themselves dude. You do realize there are plenty of instructors who are much smarter and more knowledgeable than most of the players on the PGA tour, right?

2 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

"no matter what club... same" if you were slicing or fading low he's misleading you because if he put a weak ladies flex in your hands your slice or low fade would most likely not be the result. 

But in his experience (and for most golfers), the result was the same, or pretty close to the same, because the underlying cause for that shot shape was the delivery conditions, not the golf club.

Yet again you made another broad generalization based on your individual experience. 

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

"no matter what club... same" if you were slicing or fading low he's misleading you because if he put a weak ladies flex in your hands your slice or low fade would most likely not be the result. Wouldn't be the right club for you, but he didn't explain why did he.

He's not like that, he put as close to the same flex/weight shaft in each club. I'm also not uninformed enough to not know the difference in shafts. He always gave me all the information, as well as let me use the trackman. He never pushed me to get lessons from him to fix my swing either, so it would have benefited him way more to just sell me a driver than to let me know that it wasn't going to help. He always suggested the club that produced the best numbers, even if it wasn't the most expensive club because his business is built on trust and repeat business. It's a bit off-putting that you would insult someone you don't know like this, especially given his very good reputation.

[PerfectStriking]

7 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

He's not like that, he put as close to the same flex/weight shaft in each club. I'm also not uninformed enough to not know the difference in shafts. He always gave me all the information, as well as let me use the trackman. He never pushed me to get lessons from him to fix my swing either, so it would have benefited him way more to just sell me a driver than to let me know that it wasn't going to help. He always suggested the club that produced the best numbers, even if it wasn't the most expensive club because his business is built on trust and repeat business. It's a bit off-putting that you would insult someone you don't know like this, especially given his very good reputation.

So what was your shot shape he proved no matter what you used never changed? To be honest I'm not sure whether what he said to you was inaccurate or you just misinterpreted it?

Edited July 15, 2019 by PerfectStriking

[Jeremie Boop]

5 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

So what was your shot shape he proved no matter what you used never changed?

Push fade. I hit a draw with basically every other club, but no matter what driver I used it was a push fade. Numbers showed that was not closing the face to path with the driver to turn it from fade to draw. We tried draw bias setups, gripping down a bit to shorten the shaft *which actually helped a bit, but not consistently*, straight tech style drivers, etc. No matter what the setup on the equipment, my delivery was the same, in to out path with a slightly open face to path which always resulted in a push fade.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Jeremie Boop

[PerfectStriking]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Push fade. I hit a draw with basically every other club, but no matter what driver I used it was a push fade. 

Here's the problem with this, you draw with the other clubs, so to say no matter what equipment you used would produce an open face at impact is just contradictory. If you used a cut down driver to 40 inches it may not or a ladies flex it may not. I'm going to give you a little advice now in this world there is no secret ingredient, everything is a continuum, no one is perfect and no one is the perfect dragon warrior. It is a trade off between having the absolutely best distance club in your hands with the shaft that works the best and the club you hit the most consistently, no matter what you swing, end of story not secret ingredient no perfect warrior. It is also a trade off at some point on whether it's worth the effort to change a swing or better fixed with a shaft change if your swing is good enough.

Edited July 15, 2019 by PerfectStriking