Anyone on Here a Job Recruiter?

[TN94z]

A friend of mine has his own job recruiting business and is very successful. He has asked if I want to join him and do some recruiting on the side. It wouldn't be a full time job for me but could be some great side money if I can catch on fairly quickly. I was just curious if anyone on here was a recruiter and if they had any tips or tricks of the trade to landing new job roles.

[JGus]

I'm not a recruiter, but have hired a lot of people over the past 11 years, and have dealt with recruiters when I was on the looking side. 

A few thoughts (pieces of advice):

Make sure you know, understand, and have all viable data available for the role you are trying to hire.  Nothing is more frustrating to a candidate after spending hours searching and applying to jobs then to have a call scheduled with a recruiter that can't answer any questions.  My experience, this happens +75% of the time.

Know the salary range of the role, if the candidate asks provide it, or if the candidate provides their range and you are in two different ball parks, don't string them a long by trying to sell a culture over salary.  If the culture is that good then the salary should be competitive, not low balled.  The only time (most of the time) a candidate will back pedal on salary is if their medical/dental expenses are lower so their take home increases.

Be fair with the salary offering, meaning if a candidate says they're looking for X-Y, but the position can pay Y-Z, and they are fully qualified, pay the fair salary, not the lowest number you can squeeze out of them.

[TN94z]

20 minutes ago, JGus said:

I'm not a recruiter, but have hired a lot of people over the past 11 years, and have dealt with recruiters when I was on the looking side. 

A few thoughts (pieces of advice):

Make sure you know, understand, and have all viable data available for the role you are trying to hire.  Nothing is more frustrating to a candidate after spending hours searching and applying to jobs then to have a call scheduled with a recruiter that can't answer any questions.  My experience, this happens +75% of the time.

Know the salary range of the role, if the candidate asks provide it, or if the candidate provides their range and you are in two different ball parks, don't string them a long by trying to sell a culture over salary.  If the culture is that good then the salary should be competitive, not low balled.  The only time (most of the time) a candidate will back pedal on salary is if their medical/dental expenses are lower so their take home increases.

Be fair with the salary offering, meaning if a candidate says they're looking for X-Y, but the position can pay Y-Z, and they are fully qualified, pay the fair salary, not the lowest number you can squeeze out of them.

Agreed. The friend of mine specializes in manufacturing but wants to add IT type jobs to his portfolio and that's where I came in. I have worked in telecommunications/IT/Networking my whole career. So I am trying to open up that side of the business for him.

Question for you (even though I am fairly certain I know this answer already), when a recruiter contacted you about openings, did you prefer an opening call or email? And what conversation starters got your attention versus immediately turned you away from even considering the recruiter?

Working for a recruiter and not necessarily the company, I would be trying to get the candidate top dollar for whatever position they were applying for (based on qualifications obviously).

[JGus]

Since you have been in the IT world, I'm sure you have dealt with some of these pain points as well.

In regards to first contact, I would always recommend an email, only because if you call out of the blue and the candidate is at their current work place it makes it a little awkward to have a conversation or be able to tell you when a good time to talk is.  Or if they are busy, most candidates don't want to miss the call even though they may not be able to talk and sometimes it becomes more of a burden to have that first conversation.  I think an opening email is the best approach.

For conversation starters, if the candidate actually applied to the position, to me it's not difficult, just contact them to schedule a time to discuss the opportunity further.  If you are randomly pulling candidates from a database and emailing them, this goes back to my initial comment about knowing the roll/position.  What turns me away the quickest is receiving 5-10 emails a week from recruiters telling me about a job that's perfect for me that either I don't qualify for or something that I did 10-15 years ago.  Example, an IT Director getting jobs for a Sys Admin or Sys Eng, or someone that uses SharePoint getting a job for a SharePoint administrator.

People want the person on the other end of the phone to be upfront and have somewhat of a good understanding of what they are recruiting for.  A simple, to the point email, saying you have an opportunity that you think the candidate is qualified for goes a long way, as long as you are looking at their current level or projected next level.  Don't send someone in a VP position a job for a Sr. PM, most people won't go backwards.  Asking someone if they are looking and interested in discussing an opportunity is a simple question most people will respond to.

I think most people can tell when a recruiter actually compares the job requirements with their resume compared to a recruiter just using key word searches in a database.

Edited August 17, 2019 by JGus
Added sentence

[David in FL]

I worked as a contract recruiter in my early years.  Primarily focused in finance and accounting professional.

Do you enjoy, and are you comfortable with cold calls in a commission sales type environment?  That’s probably 90% of the job in most cases.  Those that thrive in an “eat what you kill” and “what have you done for me lately?” environment can be extremely successful.  Those who struggle are usually gone in weeks, or days...

 

 

[TN94z]

11 hours ago, JGus said:

Since you have been in the IT world, I'm sure you have dealt with some of these pain points as well.

In regards to first contact, I would always recommend an email, only because if you call out of the blue and the candidate is at their current work place it makes it a little awkward to have a conversation or be able to tell you when a good time to talk is.  Or if they are busy, most candidates don't want to miss the call even though they may not be able to talk and sometimes it becomes more of a burden to have that first conversation.  I think an opening email is the best approach.

For conversation starters, if the candidate actually applied to the position, to me it's not difficult, just contact them to schedule a time to discuss the opportunity further.  If you are randomly pulling candidates from a database and emailing them, this goes back to my initial comment about knowing the roll/position.  What turns me away the quickest is receiving 5-10 emails a week from recruiters telling me about a job that's perfect for me that either I don't qualify for or something that I did 10-15 years ago.  Example, an IT Director getting jobs for a Sys Admin or Sys Eng, or someone that uses SharePoint getting a job for a SharePoint administrator.

People want the person on the other end of the phone to be upfront and have somewhat of a good understanding of what they are recruiting for.  A simple, to the point email, saying you have an opportunity that you think the candidate is qualified for goes a long way, as long as you are looking at their current level or projected next level.  Don't send someone in a VP position a job for a Sr. PM, most people won't go backwards.  Asking someone if they are looking and interested in discussing an opportunity is a simple question most people will respond to.

I think most people can tell when a recruiter actually compares the job requirements with their resume compared to a recruiter just using key word searches in a database.

 

Good info. My contact question was not as much for the candidate as it would be for the employer. For instance, I see a company is looking for whatever job they have posted. How should they be contacted (first time) by me in regards to them hiring me to find them a candidate?

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I worked as a contract recruiter in my early years.  Primarily focused in finance and accounting professional.

Do you enjoy, and are you comfortable with cold calls in a commission sales type environment?  That’s probably 90% of the job in most cases.  Those that thrive in an “eat what you kill” and “what have you done for me lately?” environment can be extremely successful.  Those who struggle are usually gone in weeks, or days...

 

 

Well, I’ve never really done that kind of work so I can’t say if I enjoy it or not. 

[David in FL]

41 minutes ago, TN94z said:

Good info. My contact question was not as much for the candidate as it would be for the employer. For instance, I see a company is looking for whatever job they have posted. How should they be contacted (first time) by me in regards to them hiring me to find them a candidate?

 

That’s where the cold calling and “sales” comes in.

You have to be willing/able to beat on a LOT of doors and convince someone (employer) to pay you a lot of money, typically 20% - 30% of the starting salary, for you to provide them applicants.  Realizing that these days, they can get all the applicants they can handle by posting on line for next to nothing...

You also have to be able to convince high quality applicants to let you represent them, knowing that by doing so they could be at a competitive disadvantage because they will be more expensive to the employer due to that same fee... 

Like any other relatively high ticket sales position, it’s a lot of work for relatively few successful transactions.  It’s especially hard to break into the business because the relatively few employers willing to use external recruiters generally already have relationships with some that they like.

Don’t misunderstand, there are those that are very successful in the business.  But it’s a hard nut to crack.

[JGus]

12 hours ago, TN94z said:

Good info. My contact question was not as much for the candidate as it would be for the employer. For instance, I see a company is looking for whatever job they have posted. How should they be contacted (first time) by me in regards to them hiring me to find them a candidate?

Well, in my area (D.C., Metro), most companies around here will state on job req's or their career page that they will not entertain 3rd party recruiters.  Most either have an agreement with staffing agents or do everything in house.  Personally I don't think what you are asking is a good approach, if someone called me about hiring them to recruit for me the answer would be no every time.  Most companies, again in my area, will budget for the cost for a staffing agent, which is usually 20% around here if they are hard to find people, companies won't approve this cost for 'normal' labor categories.  They won't be able to find money out of the blue to pay someone if there isn't an agreement already in place and approved by whoever is the approving authority.

I would think you would have a more successful route being a headhunter where you are working for people looking for work.  I honestly don't know how anyone could be successful at cold calling companies trying to convince them to pay them to recruit for a single position, being hired as their recruiting arm where you basically are being outsourced the work is profitable, but don't see how what you are describing is.

[TN94z]

12 hours ago, JGus said:

Well, in my area (D.C., Metro), most companies around here will state on job req's or their career page that they will not entertain 3rd party recruiters.  Most either have an agreement with staffing agents or do everything in house.  Personally I don't think what you are asking is a good approach, if someone called me about hiring them to recruit for me the answer would be no every time.  Most companies, again in my area, will budget for the cost for a staffing agent, which is usually 20% around here if they are hard to find people, companies won't approve this cost for 'normal' labor categories.  They won't be able to find money out of the blue to pay someone if there isn't an agreement already in place and approved by whoever is the approving authority.

I would think you would have a more successful route being a headhunter where you are working for people looking for work.  I honestly don't know how anyone could be successful at cold calling companies trying to convince them to pay them to recruit for a single position, being hired as their recruiting arm where you basically are being outsourced the work is profitable, but don't see how what you are describing is.

I see your point about cold calling but it works. My buddy does it often. A big thing is getting with companies in larger cities who are paying 25-30 for recruiters and coming in at 20% and saving them money. 

So in head hunting, the candidate is not charged I’m sure, so if a company posts a job and has a contract with a recruiting firm already, doesn’t that make it hard to get your candidate hired? Trying to figure all the ins and outs of the business. 

[David in FL]

11 hours ago, TN94z said:

I see your point about cold calling but it works. My buddy does it often. A big thing is getting with companies in larger cities who are paying 25-30 for recruiters and coming in at 20% and saving them money. 

So in head hunting, the candidate is not charged I’m sure, so if a company posts a job and has a contract with a recruiting firm already, doesn’t that make it hard to get your candidate hired? Trying to figure all the ins and outs of the business. 

Yep

 Remember most candidates that are using one recruiting firm to help them in their job search, are probably using others too.  Also, they are exploring opportunities on their own. Which means they’re also responding to online postings or networking on their own.  

The only way a recruitment firm gets paid is if they are the first to expose an applicant to a potential employer.   It does you no good whatsoever to expose an employer to your applicant, only to find out that the applicant has already responded to an online posting, even if it’s for a completely different position.  Then, not only does that applicant need to be perceived as the best candidate for the position, they have to be so much better than the rest that the employer is willing to pay an additional $25k+ in order to get them...

Edited August 19, 2019 by David in FL

[JGus]

23 hours ago, TN94z said:

I see your point about cold calling but it works. My buddy does it often. A big thing is getting with companies in larger cities who are paying 25-30 for recruiters and coming in at 20% and saving them money. 

So in head hunting, the candidate is not charged I’m sure, so if a company posts a job and has a contract with a recruiting firm already, doesn’t that make it hard to get your candidate hired? Trying to figure all the ins and outs of the business. 

I understand your point, and can't argue if it works or not since it's not my world, but I know the companies I have worked for the past 11 years would not pay independent recruiters to source a single position, and as a partner at a company now, I wouldn't either.  Creating an agreement to source all candidates is common when you don't have an internal team, but if i have on-staff recruiters i'm not paying additional money to an external agent.  To me it's either or, not both.

[TN94z]

1 minute ago, JGus said:

I understand your point, and can't argue if it works or not since it's not my world, but I know the companies I have worked for the past 11 years would not pay independent recruiters to source a single position, and as a partner at a company now, I wouldn't either.  Creating an agreement to source all candidates is common when you don't have an internal team, but if i have on-staff recruiters i'm not paying additional money to an external agent.  To me it's either or, not both.

I completely agree with that. The companies that have their own staff are not going to pay us to do it.

This would be a side gig for me to make some extra money (which I could use a few big hits right now...lol), but I'm wondering if I should even waste my time in trying to do it?  My buddy has companies that call him exclusively when they have openings. Maybe I should take the jobs he posts and just focus on headhunting for those?

[JGus]

33 minutes ago, TN94z said:

This would be a side gig for me

I don't see why you wouldn't try, if he is trying to open up the IT market and that is your bread and butter than it makes sense to give it a go.  Maybe when you start you focus on the positions that are already under contract instead of trying to find companies willing to pay you.  Not sure what his angle is for you, but recruiting for people is manageable, but if 80% of your time is trying to sell a company to hire you, that may be a little to frustrating just starting out.

[TN94z]

9 minutes ago, JGus said:

I don't see why you wouldn't try, if he is trying to open up the IT market and that is your bread and butter than it makes sense to give it a go.  Maybe when you start you focus on the positions that are already under contract instead of trying to find companies willing to pay you.  Not sure what his angle is for you, but recruiting for people is manageable, but if 80% of your time is trying to sell a company to hire you, that may be a little to frustrating just starting out.

Good advice. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It really helps alot

[JGus]

4 hours ago, TN94z said:

Good advice. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It really helps alot

No worries, enjoyed the conversation.