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criley4way

Next Level Scoring

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20 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

@upndown21..no..no just wait. Before you think these responses are attacking you, they’re not. This site has an impeccable reputation for truth. We all want one another to get better at this game and we don’t play the con game. Period. No one’s going to applaud you just because you say you’re talented. Now realize that your claim of averaging 12’ at 105yds is better than the tour average. You were given stats to show that. I think ( not accusing you of lying) that your data is incorrect. Where did you get that you average 12’ at 105yds..or whatever the numbers were? 

To be fair. He did say he "Can put inside 12'" not that he averages 12'.

So the question (as I see it) still is  a reasonable one. 

Let me rephrase it for my self. I can hit my gap wedge inside 15' about 30% (about 105 yds) of the time and average about 30'. At what point is it reasonable to attack vs play for the center?

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6 minutes ago, criley4way said:

To be fair. He did say he "Can put inside 12'" not that he averages 12'.

So the question (as I see it) still is  a reasonable one. 

Let me rephrase it for my self. I can hit my gap wedge inside 15' about 30% (about 105 yds) of the time and average about 30'. At what point is it reasonable to attack vs play for the center?

I think you'll find the answers when your copy of LSW arrives. Looks like… it was delivered today, in fact?!

And, hell, #DeadCenter:

There's no "point" - to shoot the lowest score on average you should basically be aiming at the same point all the time (assuming your Shot Zone stays the same). You can't predict which of the dots shown on page 145 of my book are going to be produced at that moment. And by aiming to accommodate your Shot Zone, you can still hit plenty of shots close to the hole.

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11 minutes ago, criley4way said:

Let me rephrase it for my self. I can hit my gap wedge inside 15' about 30% (about 105 yds) of the time and average about 30'. At what point is it reasonable to attack vs play for the center?

#DeadCenter like Erik mentioned.

Even when you get inside 100 yds, there are still a number of factors to consider like:

Where is the pin located, what are the green undulations like, how firm is the green, what is the rough like, are there bunkers, penalty areas, etc. and some or all of those conditions might make it so that even when you are 60 or 70 yds out as a 6 handicap the proper play still might be at the center of the green.

Edited by klineka
Clarity

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5 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think you'll find the answers when your copy of LSW arrives. Looks like… it was delivered today, in fact?!

And, hell, #DeadCenter:

There's no "point" - to shoot the lowest score on average you should basically be aiming at the same point all the time (assuming your Shot Zone stays the same). You can't predict which of the dots shown on page 145 of my book are going to be produced at that moment. And by aiming to accommodate your Shot Zone, you can still hit plenty of shots close to the hole.

I ordered the book. It might be coming today 😉

The concept of overlaying the shot map makes perfect sense.

Edited by iacas
updated quote

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31 minutes ago, criley4way said:

To be fair. He did say he "Can put inside 12'" not that he averages 12'.

So the question (as I see it) still is  a reasonable one. 

Let me rephrase it for my self. I can hit my gap wedge inside 15' about 30% (about 105 yds) of the time and average about 30'. At what point is it reasonable to attack vs play for the center?

It is reasonable to attack the flag if there is essentially no danger to the side of the green you're attacking.  Or if you have a 100% recovery rate from greenside bunkers.

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think you'll find the answers when your copy of LSW arrives. Looks like… it was delivered today, in fact?!

And, hell, #DeadCenter:

There's no "point" - to shoot the lowest score on average you should basically be aiming at the same point all the time (assuming your Shot Zone stays the same). You can't predict which of the dots shown on page 145 of my book are going to be produced at that moment. And by aiming to accommodate your Shot Zone, you can still hit plenty of shots close to the hole.

It's true, most of the shots I hit stiff to the pin were happy accidents because I was aiming to a safer spot.  But I never tell my golfing buddies that.  I let them think I'm "pin hunting".  Only adds to my legend.  ☺️

Edited by Double Mocha Man

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I never said I averaged 12ft from 105. I was illustrating a point that previously I played very conservative rather taking advantage of certain situations rather than always aiming to the center of the green.

 

My personal scoring zones are 55-105 and 150-180; inside those numbers in the fairway is where my game is the best. Once I started playing aggressively inside those numbers I started scoring much better. I said all this because the OP was talking about getting the ball closer to the hole. 

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Definitely an LSW fan. In terms of being able to know what you most need to work on, you could consider GameGolf/ArcCOS. If you spend the time to adjust your putts on each hole and make sure you enter in penalty strokes and the like, you can get a solidly accurate ranking of your strokes gained in the various sub categories of the game. So it'll tell you you're a ~6 HCP who drives like the average 4, has an around the green short game like the average 8, etc. So that can give you a good idea of how to adjust your dedication of practice time. I haven't done it myself because of life and I don't have time to practice, I just play 100% of the available golf time in my life right now. But my bachelor brother got it and it's really helped him understand his own game.

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19 hours ago, upndown21 said:

Right, so a 1/2 swing pw from 105 that I can put inside 12 feet I should just aim to the center and leave a 40ft putt. That’s ludicrous.

Know your own zones and play to your strengths. 

Erik already covered this but you do not have the skill to hit it inside 12 feet from that yardage very often. In fact I would wager you miss the green more often than you hit it inside 12 feet. You are living a dream, like most players you are a very poor judge of your own game. 

17 hours ago, upndown21 said:

I never said I averaged 12ft from 105. I was illustrating a point that previously I played very conservative rather taking advantage of certain situations rather than always aiming to the center of the green.

My personal scoring zones are 55-105 and 150-180; inside those numbers in the fairway is where my game is the best. Once I started playing aggressively inside those numbers I started scoring much better. I said all this because the OP was talking about getting the ball closer to the hole. 

I guarantee from 150-180 yards aiming anywhere other than the center of the green is costing you strokes. Playing at the center of the green from that distance is not conservative, its smart. You are not consistent enough. I am better than you, my handicap is 10 strokes lower than yours and I am not good enough to be taking on pins from 150-175 yards. Heck look at my GameGolf stats from 150-175. Does this look like I need to be taking on pins?  62% GIR while always aiming at the center of the green. Imagine where I'd be if I took on every pin. 

1364017405_ScreenShot2019-09-12at7_44_14AM.thumb.png.c5c3a69397487a457d69c7f55d41ee44.png

Dude, take the ego out, take a good look at your game and learn to evaluate it honestly. You are kidding yourself and hurting your game in the process.

Edited by NM Golf

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25 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

Erik already covered this but you do not have the skill to hit it inside 12 feet from that yardage very often. In fact I would wager you miss the green more often than you hit it inside 12 feet. You are living a dream, like most players you are a very poor judge of your own game. 

I guarantee from 150-180 yards aiming anywhere other than the center of the green is costing you strokes. Playing at the center of the green from that distance is not conservative, its smart. You are not consistent enough. I am better than you, my handicap is 10 strokes lower than yours and I am not good enough to be taking on pins from 150-175 yards. Heck look at my GameGolf stats from 150-175. Does this look like I need to be taking on pins?  62% GIR while always aiming at the center of the green. Imagine where I'd be if I took on every pin. 

1364017405_ScreenShot2019-09-12at7_44_14AM.thumb.png.c5c3a69397487a457d69c7f55d41ee44.png

Dude, take the ego out, take a good look at your game and learn to evaluate it honestly. You are kidding yourself and hurting your game in the process.

This is exactly what I fight all the time. I think back to what I have done and can do on the range and let my ego take over, when the smart play is to play smart and go for the center of the green. I bet it cost me at minimum of 2-4 strokes aside. That takes me from 4-5 over to even most days. That’s a lot of saved strokes just by giving up the ego 

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3 hours ago, NM Golf said:

Erik already covered this but you do not have the skill to hit it inside 12 feet from that yardage very often. In fact I would wager you miss the green more often than you hit it inside 12 feet. You are living a dream, like most players you are a very poor judge of your own game. 

I guarantee from 150-180 yards aiming anywhere other than the center of the green is costing you strokes. Playing at the center of the green from that distance is not conservative, its smart. You are not consistent enough. I am better than you, my handicap is 10 strokes lower than yours and I am not good enough to be taking on pins from 150-175 yards. Heck look at my GameGolf stats from 150-175. Does this look like I need to be taking on pins?  62% GIR while always aiming at the center of the green. Imagine where I'd be if I took on every pin. 

1364017405_ScreenShot2019-09-12at7_44_14AM.thumb.png.c5c3a69397487a457d69c7f55d41ee44.png

Dude, take the ego out, take a good look at your game and learn to evaluate it honestly. You are kidding yourself and hurting your game in the process.

Wow your a plus 6, you have seen me play, and know my stats. If you read my first post instead of interpreted it your own way you could have saved yourself a ton of trouble. Carry on gotta go puff my ego back up. 😹

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2 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

Wow your a plus 6, you have seen me play, and know my stats. If you read my first post instead of interpreted it your own way you could have saved yourself a ton of trouble

Where are you getting that from? Your handicap is listed as an 8.6, and @NM Golf is listed as a +1.5. That's 10.1 strokes difference.

People are simply trying to help and are using stats and facts to support their opinions. No need to get sarcastic and defensive.

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23 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

Wow your a plus 6, 

I'm a plus 1.5 which is approx 10 strokes better than you. Not sure what your point is here.

23 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

you have seen me play, and know my stats. 

Nope never seen you play, but you probably have stats close to every other 9 handicap I know. 

Unless you are a unicorn, because despite the fact you cannot break 80 on a regular basis you claim to be absolute money$$ from 150-175 yards.

23 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

If you read my first post instead of interpreted it your own way you could have saved yourself a ton of trouble. 

Your original post is below where you claim:

On 9/8/2019 at 9:40 AM, upndown21 said:

anything inside 165 I am flag hunting unless it is truly a very bad pin to chase. 

Which is bad game management, because from outside 100 yards you should be aiming at the center of the green.

23 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

 Carry on gotta go puff my ego back up. 😹

If it's not ego it's just inability to accurately evaluate your game. Go bury your head in the sand if you want. I am just trying to help you out man. It's not even my advice, it's the advice of guys who know A LOT about golf.

Edited by NM Golf

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21 minutes ago, klineka said:

Where are you getting that from? Your handicap is listed as an 8.6, and @NM Golf is listed as a +1.5. That's 10.1 strokes difference.

People are simply trying to help and are using stats and facts to support their opinions. No need to get sarcastic and defensive.

Sorry I don’t keep tabs on my forum profile index. I never asked for help. I simply shared an anecdote that got me scoring better: be aggressive where it suits your game. 

I am not being defensive just pointing out how many conclusions were drawn about me by someone who clearly either has too much time on their hands or an axle to grind. Regardless, does not matter to me. Carry on. 

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

@upndown21 people are trying to help you. You’re looking like a fool.

Nobody has an axe to grind and you should almost never be pin hunting from 150. Tour players rarely can. Fact.

I never asked for help. 

21 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

I'm a plus 1.5 which is approx 10 strokes better than you. Not sure what your point is here.

Nope never seen you play, but you probably have stats close to every other 9 handicap I know. 

Unless you are a unicorn, because despite the fact you cannot break 80 on a regular basis you claim to be absolute money$$ from 150-175 yards.

Your original post is below where you claim:

Which is bad game management, because from outside 100 yards you should be aiming at the center of the green.

If it's not ego it's just inability to accurately evaluate your game. Go bury your head in the sand if you want. I am just trying to help you out man. It's not even my advice, it's the advice of guys who know A LOT about golf.

I love golf because you get to play your own ball and make your own decisions. Keep creating your own storyline with my brief comments. 

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Implicit to any comments made on here is the request for other members to share their thoughts.  If you don't need or want help it might be a good idea to say that in the original post.

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@upndown21 It's quite obvious you don't want help, and that's fine and totally up to you. But, when you give another member of the forum bad advice you're going to get called out on it. The fact is aiming at the flag from over 100 yards is poor game management and even worse advice. He will NOT lower his scores by following your lead. That's not my opinion it's a fact.

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