Handicap Posting Question with Raised Cups

[ElWagonne]

For those of you that are still able to play, are you posting rounds where the cup is raised out of the hole?  The few courses that are open here for the most part have metal inserts inside the hole, however, one course had the cup raised so we just called putts in if they touched the cup.  What are y'all doing in these cases?

[bkuehn1952]

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2020/03/covid-19-rules-guidance-statement.html

"From the perspective of the Rules of Handicapping, the most frequent questions received are primarily related to the acceptability of scores for posting to a player’s scoring record. In particular, relating to modifying the hole and not requiring the player to “hole out” as required under the Rules of Golf. These are founded in a desire to minimize the possibility of exposing golfers to coronavirus and have included leaving the hole liner raised above the putting surface or placing various objects into the hole so the ball can be more easily removed. In these specific cases, provided guidance from health and governmental officials is being followed, a temporary measure is in place within the United States to accept scores played under these conditions for handicap purposes using the most likely score guidelines, even though the player has not holed out. 

This temporary measure is now in effect within the United States until advised otherwise by the USGA. "

While none of our courses are open and thus no one is posting here in Michigan, I think I would suggest that grazing the raised cup would be considered not holed and everything else as in.  As the USGA states, consider what the most likely outcome would have been.

[gbogey]

The answer is yes I posted such a round.  I believe that there was a USGA communication about temporary rule changes that would count such a score.  Regardless, I can say that all of my holed putts were dead square at a reasonable pace.  Not sure what I would have done if they weren't.  That said, I must admit I found aiming at the raised cup to be much easier than a non-raised cup.

[gbogey]

@Bkuehn had the complete correct answer while I was writing my response.  I guess now I know what to do if I'm not dead center.

The place I played last week the raised cups were metal.  They gave a little "bonk" rebound when you hit them.  My wife and I had fun whenever we had a gimme to see what kind of "bonk" we could get off the cup.  Of course she "holed" two long putts that were way too hard - the size of the "bonk" and rebound was quite humorous.

[SteveH]

I, and many of the guys I golf with, agree that putting to the raised cups is way easier than regular putting.  Seems like it's a lot easier to put a firm stroke on and hit that ring.  The question is whether it would have gone in ?  My friends and I are tracking our scores but not letting them affect our handicaps. Other people are just not putting their scores in.

[iacas]

  On 4/17/2020 at 10:56 PM, SteveH said:

I, and many of the guys I golf with, agree that putting to the raised cups is way easier than regular putting.  Seems like it's a lot easier to put a firm stroke on and hit that ring.  The question is whether it would have gone in ?  My friends and I are tracking our scores but not letting them affect our handicaps. Other people are just not putting their scores in.

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Then you’re all in breach of the rules of handicapping, technically (if in season).

[SteveH]

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:08 PM, iacas said:

Then you’re all in breach of the rules of handicapping, technically (if in season).

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So, are you saying I should be posting scores to count for handicapping ?  Even though, playing conditions are way easier due to the putting, as well as being able to move the ball in bunkers etc as there are no rakes ?  Our season officially began April 1 if I'm not mistaken.

[Vinsk]

  On 4/17/2020 at 10:56 PM, SteveH said:

The question is whether it would have gone in ?

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Pretty simple question really. It’s not that hard to determine if your ball would’ve dropped. 

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, SteveH said:

as well as being able to move the ball in bunkers etc as there are no rakes ?

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I play it as it lies.

[SteveH]

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:25 PM, Vinsk said:

Pretty simple question really. It’s not that hard to determine if your ball would’ve dropped. 

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I agree.  But lot's of guys in the groups I play in are saying you just have to hit the ring.  Others are saying it has to stay within a putter length. I see some putts hit the ring so hard that the ball rolls 6ft plus past and there's no way they would have been holed

Edited April 17, 2020 by SteveH

[iacas]

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, SteveH said:

Even though, playing conditions are way easier due to the putting

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Putting shouldn't be "way easier." The USGA says putt your most likely score. If your ball barely touches the edge of the cup, it wasn't going in.

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, SteveH said:

as well as being able to move the ball in bunkers etc as there are no rakes?

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Then stop doing that.

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, SteveH said:

But lot's of guys in the groups I play in are saying you just have to hit the ring.

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They're wrong. That's not what the USGA has advised.

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, SteveH said:

Others are saying it has to stay within a putter length.

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Look, you have an opportunity to educate a whole bunch of people.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2020/03/covid-19-rules-guidance-statement.html

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/covid-19-rules-and-handicapping-faqs.html

[billchao]

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, SteveH said:

I agree.  But lot's of guys in the groups I play in are saying you just have to hit the ring.  Others are saying it has to stay within a putter length. I see some putts hit the ring so hard that the ball rolls 6ft plus past and there's no way they would have been holed

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Whether the ball would have been holed or not is a judgement call. It's certainly not any ball that hits the liner, nor is it a ball that hits the liner so hard it rolls 6' past. I'd even make the argument that a ball that hits the liner and rolls out to 30" (within a putter length) probably wouldn't have been holed, either, unless it deflected downhill or something.

Think about good putting speed, which is about 6-12" past the hole. A ball rolling at that speed isn't going to hit an object and roll out 30" or more.

[SteveH]

  On 4/17/2020 at 11:44 PM, iacas said:

Putting shouldn't be "way easier." The USGA says putt your most likely score. If your ball barely touches the edge of the cup, it wasn't going in.

Then stop doing that.

They're wrong. That's not what the USGA has advised.

Look, you have an opportunity to educate a whole bunch of people.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2020/03/covid-19-rules-guidance-statement.html

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/covid-19-rules-and-handicapping-faqs.html

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Thanks for the info and links.  Shared it with my golfing partners. Hope I don't get hate mail, lol

[CSRA_Gator]

This is super helpful thank you guys