PAC-12 Players Demand Pay

[iacas 9,365]

 

[saevel25 1,759]

1. A lot of sports are supported by football or basketball revenues only. Also, a lot of that revenue goes towards scholarships, so they are getting paid in some regard. Do they think that tennis or swimming actually bring in revenue? I can see some sort of stipend, but 50% revenue is a bit absurd. I bet most schools actually don't have 50% of their revenue left after paying for other sports, facilities, staff, etc.. I am not even sure most college athletics actually make money with their athletic department.

2. I am OK with this option, because it basically exits when a student gets a 5th year of eligibility when they go to graduate school. They may have to redshirt one year, but they get the benefit of being on the team and then playing four more years. 

3. I never knew this was an issue. Hey, if someone doesn't want to be an activist and takes your spot because you spend more time being an activist versus being an athlete than tough. I am all for this as long as they don't get the double standard of expecting they have a spot guaranteed to them on a team. 

4. I am fine with this. 

5. This will require a change to how recruiting goes in NCAA football. They have a maximum # of scholarships available. So, if they go pro, and they're are not more scholarships available, how would they come back? I agree that they shouldn't loose eligibility to play NCAA football if they go early and didn't get drafted. I am not sure that a school should be required to hold a spot for them. They may need to go play at a different school. Though, I am not sure how many three year or two year redshirt athletes don't get drafted. I can understand a senior, who doesn't have any eligibility left. This could create a big logistical nightmare if they allow for a standard 6 years of eligibility. 

[Sandy Lie 25]

Only if they stay in school and graduate in 4 or 5 years. Have them sign a contract. If they leave early to turn Pro they have to pay it all back.  

[David in FL 2,513]

I’m sure they’ll find plenty willing to take their place…

[Vinsk 1,748]

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. So they get a free ride and now want to be paid for it? 

[iacas 9,365]

6 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. So they get a free ride and now want to be paid for it? 

By the same token, an athlete that's injured in the course of playing is kind of put in a bad position, as their scholarships can be revoked due to no real fault of their own.

I can see both sides here: some college teams make a TON of money for their colleges while the players aren't really given a valuable education: they're getting degrees (and many are gone before they actually get a degree) in meaningless, stupid stuff.

[saevel25 1,759]

11 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

Only if they stay in school and graduate in 4 or 5 years. Have them sign a contract. If they leave early to turn Pro they have to pay it all back.  

Why? 

They are not signing up for a degree (at least in football). They are signing up to make the school money, and to go to the NFL. Why should they have to give the scholarship money back. There are plenty of students who drop out, who might get scholarships, should they have to pay it back? I don't think that is a viable system, and would greatly hamper a college's ability to get people to accept scholarships. 

8 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. 

Not when it comes to football. Football is primarily to give schools more money. This is why schools never mandate that any of their athletes actually must complete degrees. 

8 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. 

Depends on the school. Like Notre Dame, they hold their football players to a much higher GPA standard than your typical school This blanket statement doesn't come close to covering the entirety of college athletics. Lets be a bit more nuanced here. 

My stance is, they should be able to make money based on their likeness. I am OK for allowing for more quality of life changes to the system. More flexible transfer rules. More flexible eligibility and scholarship rules. Here is a another side of it. Academic scholarships don't make the school money, yet they are allowed to get a job and make money. To me, if the school is making money off athletes then that is a job. Maybe they shouldn't be just limited to getting a free education. 

[David in FL 2,513]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

By the same token, an athlete that's injured in the course of playing is kind of put in a bad position, as their scholarships can be revoked due to no real fault of their own.

I can see both sides here: some college teams make a TON of money for their colleges while the players aren't really given a valuable education: they're getting degrees (and many are gone before they actually get a degree) in meaningless, stupid stuff.

The choice of major is up to the student, is it not?  There are plenty of very successful athletes that graduate with business, engineering, or other “valuable” degrees…

[iacas 9,365]

9 minutes ago, David in FL said:

The choice of major is up to the student, is it not?  There are plenty of very successful athletes that graduate with business, engineering, or other “valuable” degrees…

Of course it is, but:

• Most football or basketball players aren't in school to get a valuable degree. They're not there for the education.
• Many higher end programs won't even really allow a student to take an intensive major because they won't have enough time to practice. Hell, many D1 schools won't let golfers take intensive majors, and that's just for golf, let alone football or basketball.

So, you can choose "pre-med/chemistry" as your major… and find that you might not make the football team and that your scholarship gets pulled. That is, if you're almost entirely unlike most college football players, and are actually smart enough to major in something other than "communication" and "exploratory/general studies."

[Vinsk 1,748]

18 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Lets be a bit more nuanced here. 

I said ‘many’ not all. And that is simply true. Also consider the athletes who are generating this revenue. Did Rubin Oliver generate the same draw as Barry Sanders at OSU? You don’t think they will say something when Joe Blow gets the same share as the star QB or RB? 
I agree with Erik regarding the injury point. But again...tough break. That’s the risk with playing high intensity sports. And the ‘star athletes’ have no business making money while in college when in a few years they’re going to get paid more than any medical school graduate who did it on their own and acquire hundreds of thousands in debt.

[Double Mocha Man 627]

38 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. 

Agreed.  Relish the education.  It will help get you ahead after you go undrafted.  Sheesh, I didn't get a penny for playing golf at SIU.  Though I may write them a letter asking for payments in arrears...

[iacas 9,365]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

It will help get you ahead after you go undrafted.

A "general studies" degree has helped roughly zero people, ever. Do you disagree? 😛

[Double Mocha Man 627]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

A "general studies" degree has helped roughly zero people, ever. Do you disagree? 😛

Well, athletes should go for a degree in their area of interest... as well as everyone else.  Though I have seen a lot of students get a good job based on "General Studies, English Literature, Philosophy".  A lot of employers appreciate a person who has stuck it out to get a degree.  Says something about them.  And they are always trainable.

[iacas 9,365]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, athletes should go for a degree in their area of interest... as well as everyone else.

Their interests are often football, women, parties.

[Double Mocha Man 627]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Their interests are often football, women, parties.

So they shall reap what they sow...

[David in FL 2,513]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Their interests are often football, women, parties.

Like a lot of other college students.  The vast majority of whom are paying for that same education...

[iacas 9,365]

14 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Like a lot of other college students.  The vast majority of whom are paying for that same education...

No, they're not.

Colleges with bigger time football and basketball programs are basically barely educating athletes so that they can meet the very loose NCAA standards to participate in athletics, then making millions off the work and talents and abilities of those athletes.

I'm not going to say that they're abused or anything like that, but the NCAA and the various college programs would love for you to keep calling them "student athletes" and to keep spouting nonsense like "but they're getting an education."

They're almost never "getting an education." They're enrolled in classes called "rocks for jocks" (a very basic geology class), "communication" majors, "general studies" programs… etc. They're just enrolled in classes where they're given Bs or Cs to keep a high enough GPA and credit hour counts to do the only real reason many/most are there: to play their sport, to train, to practice, to hit the weight room, etc.

[Double Mocha Man 627]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, they're not.

Colleges with bigger time football and basketball programs are basically barely educating athletes so that they can meet the very loose NCAA standards to participate in athletics, then making millions off the work and talents and abilities of those athletes.

I'm not going to say that they're abused or anything like that, but the NCAA and the various college programs would love for you to keep calling them "student athletes" and to keep spouting nonsense like "but they're getting an education."

They're almost never "getting an education." They're enrolled in classes called "rocks for jocks" (a very basic geology class), "communication" majors, "general studies" programs… etc. They're just enrolled in classes where they're given Bs or Cs to keep a high enough GPA and credit hour counts to do the only real reason many/most are there: to play their sport, to train, to practice, to hit the weight room, etc.

... and that is so sad.  But every once in a while a few of them pick up on key things and become smart, good citizens.  I always like watching the after-game interviews with athletes, whether college or pro sports.  It is quite refreshing when some of them are reflective and cognizant of who and where they are.  Those are the ones who will benefit our society.