Thoughts on My Iron Fitting?

[Adam C]

  On 8/25/2020 at 3:46 AM, Knockglock said:

Ah, I see.  They told me that the price would be the same through Club Champion or Callaway, but now that I look it up on Callaway's website, it looks like it's $175 more expensive for the set (4-PW) to buy through Club Champion.  I hadn't realized that.  I didn't get any exact timeline from Club Champion either, but they made it sound like it might take a while if I bought through them, whereas I could buy from the Callaway website and get the 4-PW in 5-7 days.  

And thanks for the explanation on the players distance irons!  That makes sense.  I'm still leaning going that way, although I am somewhat torn and am going to ask my fitter about game improvement irons as well when I go back.

One other thing I see talked a lot about on this forum that I have a question about is gapping.  The build sheet my fitter put together has the Callaway PW and then Titleist Vokey 54 and 58 degree wedges.  Do you have any thoughts on that set up?  I see a lot of people play wedges with a bit more gap between them, like a 52 and 58 or a 52 and 60.  Or does it not really matter?  Unfortunately, we didn't do trackman on the wedges so I don't know how far I hit them.  Also, do you have any thoughts on whether it's better to get the complete Callaway set (since I'm buying on the website, I can buy an Apex gap wedge and sand wedge as well) or go with separate Vokey wedges?  My fitter recommended to go the Vokey route, but I didn't realize buying Apex wedges as well was a possibility.

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They will always be slower because they have to order the clubs from OEM, break them down, rebuild, and ship to the store where you bought them.

Gapping is pure distance, finding the right lofts to cover your distances. You could look at the Apex gap if you plan on playing it for more full shots. Will be more forgiving than Vokey or other blade styles.

Titleist is always a good one, but Callaway, Cleveland, Taylormade and Mizuno all make great wedges also. Just depends on what looks best to your eye as they all have slightly different head shapes, sizes, offsets, etc. If you can't actually hit them on grass, I wouldn't put much stock in trying them indoors. Pick what looks good in your hand and go practice.

[Knockglock]

  On 8/25/2020 at 1:12 PM, Adam C said:

They will always be slower because they have to order the clubs from OEM, break them down, rebuild, and ship to the store where you bought them.

Gapping is pure distance, finding the right lofts to cover your distances. You could look at the Apex gap if you plan on playing it for more full shots. Will be more forgiving than Vokey or other blade styles.

Titleist is always a good one, but Callaway, Cleveland, Taylormade and Mizuno all make great wedges also. Just depends on what looks best to your eye as they all have slightly different head shapes, sizes, offsets, etc. If you can't actually hit them on grass, I wouldn't put much stock in trying them indoors. Pick what looks good in your hand and go practice.

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Thank you!  That's very helpful.  I think I will just order from the OEM, don't want to have to wait longer to get them.  And that makes sense, I think I will only be able to hit the wedges indoors so I guess I won't stress about it and probably just go with the Vokeys.

[TourSpoon]

  On 8/25/2020 at 4:11 PM, Knockglock said:

Thank you!  That's very helpful.  I think I will just order from the OEM, don't want to have to wait longer to get them.  And that makes sense, I think I will only be able to hit the wedges indoors so I guess I won't stress about it and probably just go with the Vokeys.

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Do yourself a favor and before you buy wedges hit the demos at a green grass location. I don't know how you predict turf interaction without actual turf. 

[Knockglock]

  On 8/25/2020 at 4:14 PM, TourSpoon said:

Do yourself a favor and before you buy wedges hit the demos at a green grass location. I don't know how you predict turf interaction without actual turf. 

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That makes sense.  Thanks for the tip!  Just need to find a place where I can hit wedges on grass, seems like everything is mats where I live.

[TourSpoon]

  On 8/25/2020 at 4:31 PM, Knockglock said:

That makes sense.  Thanks for the tip!  Just need to find a place where I can hit wedges on grass, seems like everything is mats where I live.

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Just check them out from your fitter and leave your credit card. 

[RFKFREAK]

  On 8/24/2020 at 10:04 PM, Knockglock said:

I signed up for a full bag club fitting at Club Champion, it was $350.    

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Wow, I never realized they cost this much.

I was lucky in that one of the country clubs around used to do Titleist Thursday's where almost three years ago I got fit for my 718 AP2's so the fitting didn't cost me anything.  I knew I wanted Titleist clubs so even though one of the local golf shops had a demo day where all the manufacturers came with their clubs, I really didn't look into it much. 

The fitter used Trackman and we went over the numbers but to be honest, I don't remember if it was as in-depth as yours seems to be as he based my fitting around how I hit my old 7I and the 7I he had for the AP range.

[Knockglock]

  On 8/26/2020 at 11:15 PM, RFKFREAK said:

Wow, I never realized they cost this much.

I was lucky in that one of the country clubs around used to do Titleist Thursday's where almost three years ago I got fit for my 718 AP2's so the fitting didn't cost me anything.  I knew I wanted Titleist clubs so even though one of the local golf shops had a demo day where all the manufacturers came with their clubs, I really didn't look into it much. 

The fitter used Trackman and we went over the numbers but to be honest, I don't remember if it was as in-depth as yours seems to be as he based my fitting around how I hit my old 7I and the 7I he had for the AP range.

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Yeah, they're a little pricey for sure but I wanted to make sure I got something that worked for me since I will be dropping a lot more than that on getting the clubs.  Plus the full bag is a bit cheaper than if you schedule the various fittings individually so.  Really glad your process was very smooth though, the AP2s are really nice clubs, they're definitely among my very favorite iron sets.

[RFKFREAK]

  On 8/26/2020 at 11:35 PM, Knockglock said:

Yeah, they're a little pricey for sure but I wanted to make sure I got something that worked for me since I will be dropping a lot more than that on getting the clubs.  Plus the full bag is a bit cheaper than if you schedule the various fittings individually so.  Really glad your process was very smooth though, the AP2s are really nice clubs, they're definitely among my very favorite iron sets.

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Yeah, I'm somewhat doing it piecemeal.  Although I did get my hybrid with the irons, I bought my driver 4 years ago which was a demo which they had on sale because the news series was coming in that fall so they practically gave it away and I'm still using a 3W I bought like 8 years ago.

Tell us what you think when you get the clubs and play with them a few times!

[Knockglock]

  On 8/27/2020 at 5:17 PM, RFKFREAK said:

Yeah, I'm somewhat doing it piecemeal.  Although I did get my hybrid with the irons, I bought my driver 4 years ago which was a demo which they had on sale because the news series was coming in that fall so they practically gave it away and I'm still using a 3W I bought like 8 years ago.

Tell us what you think when you get the clubs and play with them a few times!

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I definitely will!  What driver did you end up with?  All my clubs are 12+ years old so I feel like I'm due for an upgrade ha.

[RFKFREAK]

  On 8/27/2020 at 5:23 PM, Knockglock said:

I definitely will!  What driver did you end up with?  All my clubs are 12+ years old so I feel like I'm due for an upgrade ha.

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I got the Titleist 915 D2.  Looking back, my driver fitting was pretty substandard.  Tried a few drivers but I don't recall a launch monitor being used.  I didn't really feel like they it was really thorough.  I mean, I believe without a launch monitor it's pretty impossible really dial in what works best for a person.  But, that was 4 years ago and my swing is very different now so I guess not the worst.  I'll know better for next time, though. 

[Knockglock]

So I decided to go in for a second opinion at True Spec, I felt a bit more comfortable with this one--we took our time more and it was less rushed and we tried out more options. 

(1)  The fitter agreed I needed a heavier shaft (120g) but said a stiff flex was better with my swing speeds (83-86 mph with a 6 iron) than an extra stiff flex, which was my intuition as well.  I hit the extra stiff fine, although not nearly as far as the stiff, 168 carry versus 178 carry.  My fitter said that the stiff was better than the extra stiff because it produced a better/higher launch angle, 16.9 versus 20, and higher flight which also makes sense to me.  Probably easier to hold a green.  One big oddity is that my spin numbers were radically different on the Foresight machine versus the Trackman, which may have contributed to the different shafts (the Club Champion fitter put me in extra stiff in part to reduce what the fitter thought was excessive spin).  I normally take lessons on trackman anyway, and my coach has told me that trackman often has inflated spin rates (he even puts little stickers on the ball to get more accurate readings of my spin), so I wonder if the Foresight gave me the more accurate reading over the Trackman, but of course I have no way of knowing for sure.  Kind of frustrating not knowing which technology to trust.  In the end, think I will probably go with the stiff flex over the extra stiff, but wanted to see what people on here thought.   

(2)  The fitter also recommended I get the Apex.  I hit some more game improvement clubs as well as the Apex.  I hit the Mavrik irons pretty well, my best smash factor and distance, but my fitter said that he preferred the Apex because the Mavrik launched lower (18.7 versus 20) and had a lower ball flight, although it doesn't look like a huge difference.  The other thing with the Mavrik was that the offset meant that my most common miss (a hook) was more severe than with the Apex because it gave me more time to close the club face, which is not something I necessarily want with my more closed-face swing.  The Mavrik seemed a bit more forgiving, I felt like I had some mishits off the toe that went about 10-15 yards further than similar mishits on the Apex.  And I hit the Mavrik a little bit further, although I looked up the lofts and the Mavrik 6 iron loft is basically equivalent to the Apex 5 iron loft, so I think the extra distance may be a bit deceptive.  I'm still a little torn, but I think I'm leaning more toward the Apex over the Mavrik, in large part because I seemed more consistent with the Apex especially when it comes to left-right consistency, but I'm not entirely sure as I hit the Mavrik further and had a better smash factor.  

(3)  At Club Champion, they had me hit once to figure out my lie and said I was standard.  At True Spec, it looks like their machine records my lie on every hit, and it has me pretty consistently toe down to a substantial degree.  The fitter said he would recommend fitting me with more upright clubs as a result.  I'm a little torn on what to do.  I'm more tempted to fix the lie angle through lessons rather than bending the club and so just buy a standard lie, but I wanted to get people's opinion.  Also, I did some research and saw that you can bend clubs after you buy anyway so it might not be a big deal to buy standard now and get them bent later.  Is there any downside to bending clubs after the fact as opposed to buying them more upright directly from the manufacturer?  

(4)  Also, per Adam's advice, I asked about grip size and he confirmed that I was definitely a midsize grip, so thank you so much for that advice Adam.  I made sure he was very sure about that being the proper grip size and tested it a few times and it does seem like midsize is the appropriate grip for me.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[NativeTxn]

Why not get them ordered upright for now, and then if you do eventually start hitting it too much heel side, you can always have the lie flattened some?

Edited August 27, 2020 by NativeTxn

[Knockglock]

  On 8/27/2020 at 8:41 PM, NativeTxn said:

Why not get them ordered upright for now, and then if you do eventually start hitting it too much heel side, you can always have the lie flattened some?

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Thank you for the response!  That makes sense!  Is there any issues with bending the club after purchase?  I take it that's something I don't really have to worry about damaging my clubs or anything?

Edited August 27, 2020 by Knockglock

[RFKFREAK]

  On 8/27/2020 at 9:55 PM, Knockglock said:

Thank you for the response!  That makes sense!  Is there any issues with bending the club after purchase?  I take it that's something I don't really have to worry about damaging my clubs or anything?

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I'd get them for the swing you have now.  It's good that you want to improve, obviously, but if you happen to improving your swing you can easily make adjustments to the club afterwards so as to not have them as upright, AFAIK.

[Knockglock]

  On 8/27/2020 at 10:22 PM, RFKFREAK said:

I'd get them for the swing you have now.  It's good that you want to improve, obviously, but if you happen to improving your swing you can easily make adjustments to the club afterwards so as to not have them as upright, AFAIK.

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Good to know!  Thank you for the very helpful response!

[Adam C]

Get them fit for the lie you need right now. No need to hinder yourself with an incorrect lie angle based on some future possible swing.

Yes, you can always bend them down the road if you need to make changes. Just make sure you find someone who knows what they are doing and doesn't break or dent anything.

Your second fitting with I am assuming a GC Quad should be much better than the Trackman. Trackman is great outdoors but can have issues with indoor use as you have limited down field range for the Doppler to pick up.

[Knockglock]

  On 8/28/2020 at 12:25 AM, Adam C said:

Get them fit for the lie you need right now. No need to hinder yourself with an incorrect lie angle based on some future possible swing.

Yes, you can always bend them down the road if you need to make changes. Just make sure you find someone who knows what they are doing and doesn't break or dent anything.

Your second fitting with I am assuming a GC Quad should be much better than the Trackman. Trackman is great outdoors but can have issues with indoor use as you have limited down field range for the Doppler to pick up.

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Thank you, that's extremely helpful!  Yeah, I believe it was a GC Quad.  Good to know it's more accurate than the Trackman indoors.  Do you have any thoughts on the stiff versus extra stiff shaft or the Apex versus the Mavrik?

[Adam C]

  On 8/28/2020 at 12:40 AM, Knockglock said:

Thank you, that's extremely helpful!  Yeah, I believe it was a GC Quad.  Good to know it's more accurate than the Trackman indoors.  Do you have any thoughts on the stiff versus extra stiff shaft or the Apex versus the Mavrik?

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Stiff will in theory give you a slightly higher ball flight/higher spin/slightly more closed face. This is what should happen. Usually very small amount just going between flexes though, ie stiff vs S or R vs S. Bigger influence again is the weight of the shaft and this is extra important b/c you are looking at KBS who weights by stiffness. Other brands don't have 10g weight differences between flexes in a certain shaft model so all the differences we discussed would be even less. Since KBS does this, just want to be aware of it. I think stiff weight is still plenty heavy for you.

You already hit the differences between the heads. Mav slightly more forgiving heel to toe, slightly higher, stronger lofts. Apex slightly less forgiving but better overall dispersion, slightly shorter, forged so they can be bent for lies and lofts. Mavs can usually only bend a degree or so without sending to Callaway.