Moe Norman

[max power]

  Stretch said:

It's advertising. That assumes hyperbole.

Yep. But there's a difference between hyperbole and ludicrousness.

[senorchipotle]

what makes tiger great is his ability to keep mentally stable under pressure, the complete opposite of moe.

[kennay92]

I think he wasnt autistic, just reclusive after he got hit by that car.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Norman once bet Dave Pelz they would take turns and he could hit a stake 250 yards away before Pelz could sink an 80-foot putt. True? Apocryphal? He could probably do it, though.

[sean_miller]

  The Recreational Golfer said:

Norman once bet Dave Pelz they would take turns and he could hit a stake 250 yards away before Pelz could sink an 80-foot putt. True? Apocryphal? He could probably do it, though.

I wonder (out loud) if the average hacker could shoot a better score by copying Moe's move than by Tiger's current incarnation (or whatever he's moving toward). Just a thought.

[iacas]

  sean_miller said:

I wonder (out loud) if the average hacker could shoot a better score by copying Moe's move than by Tiger's current incarnation (or whatever he's moving toward). Just a thought.

Have you forgotten about Natural Golf?

[sean_miller]

  iacas said:

Have you forgotten about Natural Golf?

I saw it on TV, but never saw anyone try it in real life. I've been accused of being a proponent of it, since my takeaway is not very long and I worry more about impact than an exaggerated finish position. Here's to hoping nobody ever asks, "Have you forgotten about S&T;?"

[canadianpro]

I had the opportunity to be a friend of the late Moe Norman who quite possibly was the best ball striker the game has ever seen. Here is a link that descibes some of his accomplishments. He by the way, had the most pages published about his swing in any issue of Golf Digest ever.

http://devour.com/video/moe-norman/

[Easy]

It's a shame they don't have much footage of swing in his early days. I've only seen a couple and it looked a tad more conventional to when he was older.

[Clambake]

I speculate that the reason Moe was so good was related to his autism, and as such his swing worked for him but wouldn't necessary be right for anyone else.   I saw a 60 Minutes segment a few weeks ago that featured an autistic pianist.   He was essentially non-functional as a person, unable to accomplish basic living tasks by himself.   But in front of the piano his fingers did amazing things, playing very complex pieces after simply hearing them done by someone else.   His "mis-wired" brain enabled an amazing hand/eye coordination with the piano, but not for anything else.

Moe Norman could be a similar case, although not nearly as extreme in his day-to-day living.    If his "gift" of hand coordination was actually enhanced by his autism, it is likely he could pull off shots and control that were truly amazing, but this wasn't because his method of swinging - no amount of learning his swing by the rest of us would result in similar capabilities.

[canadianpro]

I had the opportunity to play with Moe Norman and considered that he was my friend and I was his. The myth that Moe didn't hit it long is unfounded although later in his career, he made a few equipment changes that did shorten his tee shot (along with good old age). He was an extremely  shy person and I have NEVER seen anyone hit golf shots as consistently as he did. He used to put a silver dollar on the ground 2 feet behind the ball and another one 2 feet in front on the target line. He was the only one who could perfect a swing where the club passed over these two points. This move of course did not develop extreme clubhead speeds but he was still as long as any most tour players in his day. However his line to me was  "always hold the angle....hold the angle" which meant retain the flying wedge. His grips were massive with old rubber wraps on top of the standard grip. Also he always squeezed as hard as possible with his left hand. 3-woods out of divots were a specialty and I saw him once hit 6 of these "divot" shots in succession over 200 yards to a forecaddie with a baseball glove and the kid never moved once!

He was very uncomfortable in the spotlight and preferred to just hit golf shots. He played in my Pro Am Tournament for years and was always in the top three (40 professionals most a lot younger than him). His putter would let him down because he hated the pace of tournament play. Being on tour was lonely for him and he missed his friends at home....that is why he didn't make it in the big leagues. Around our neck of the woods, he was almost always under par and had and still holds many competitive course records. A different guy?....for sure. The perfect ball striker?....I wouldn't bet against it....too bad he isn't still with us.

There are some great videos on him...do some searches...A different guy for sure but unbelievable!

[whatwhatwhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas As many know, MJonGolf has re-launched (again) and is focusing on the single-axis (i.e. "Moe Norman") golf swing. Here's a comment I posted to his site recently:

  None said:

First, it's Vijay, not VJ. You know this, and since you're preaching something so "fringe," your detractors are going to look at every way to pick you apart. Not knowing the name of the world #2 is an easy target. Second, good luck with all of this. You're going to need it, because you're going to get some tough questions. Those questions are going to be like: a) If this swing is so good, why doesn't anyone swing with it? b) Why hasn't anyone ever used this swing to win on the PGA Tour? c) If Moe Norman was so good, why did he not play against - and beat - his conventional-swinging contemporaries? d) How much distance am I going to give up going to this swing? You could argue that most people don't use the swing simply because they've never heard of it, but Vijay knows about Moe - as you point out - yet continues to swing in a conventional fashion. The same holds true for Tiger Woods and countless other professionals. Nobody's ever won with a full Moe-like swing (I think someone, who was it, McCarron? McCallister? - used small parts of it and appears in some commercials) on the PGA Tour, and that's not likely to change. Moe may not have competed because of personality quirks, but there's no saying he would have won, either, had he played. It's speculation. And lastly, nobody's enthralled with accuracy. Chicks dig the long ball... and so do golfers. Overcoming those hurdles - those objections - is going to take a lot of time and effort. I don't agree that many golfers will reach their potential with the single-axis swing. I think that potential is the upper reaches of someone's abilities, and so long as they're leaving 5-20% of their distance in the bag, they're not going to reach their potential. They may improve or score better more quickly, but the word "potential" is a different beast than "get to be decent more quickly." Good luck.

Vijay Singh, Tiger Woods, and a lot of other Touring pros all know Moe Norman. They've seen him, done exhibitions with him, and talked about him. Yet the continue to swing the conventional way. That's pretty damning. What do you think of the Moe Norman swing? What is your objection to it? Why don't you use it? What do you think of it?

Hmmmm.....this is a little contradictory of you, isnt it now iacas?

[iacas]

  whatwhatwhat said:

Originally Posted by whatwhatwhat

Hmmmm.....this is a little contradictory of you, isnt it now iacas?

No. In what way is it contradictory? Contradictory of what? Methinks you're trolling again, Brian.

[Easy]

  Clambake said:

Originally Posted by Clambake

I speculate that the reason Moe was so good was related to his autism, and as such his swing worked for him but wouldn't necessary be right for anyone else.   I saw a 60 Minutes segment a few weeks ago that featured an autistic pianist.   He was essentially non-functional as a person, unable to accomplish basic living tasks by himself.   But in front of the piano his fingers did amazing things, playing very complex pieces after simply hearing them done by someone else.   His "mis-wired" brain enabled an amazing hand/eye coordination with the piano, but not for anything else.

Moe Norman could be a similar case, although not nearly as extreme in his day-to-day living.    If his "gift" of hand coordination was actually enhanced by his autism, it is likely he could pull off shots and control that were truly amazing, but this wasn't because his method of swinging - no amount of learning his swing by the rest of us would result in similar capabilities.

I don't buy the Autism thing. From what I know about the disorder is that essentially you lack "social awareness," you have a hard time putting yourself in others shoes. I've also heard he had a bad case of social anxiety in his early days and that he was really hurt when the PGA imposed certain restrictions on him. If that's the case he can't be autistic.

[canadianpro]

He was described to be more like a savant than being autistic

[Easy]

I love this vid of Moe Norman. Just hits the ball and flies dead straight. Awesome.

[MikeLowry5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLauncher

  kafka01 said:

The elephant in the room. And honestly I can't even begin to answer it.

It's a big elephant I'd say. Wouldn't you agree that if you could mimic the exact movement of an Iron Byron you would hit perfect shots all day long?  I've never witnessed an Iron Byron personally so I do not know if there is an variance in the results with these.

[MikeLowry5]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatwhatwhat

Hmmmm.....this is a little contradictory of you, isnt it now iacas?

No. In what way is it contradictory? Contradictory of what? Methinks you're trolling again, Brian.

Not sure if he's trolling but I did wonder about the S&T; pattern when I read that one line.  To be sure there have been winners on the PGA tour who are associated with the pattern however, the swing looks different than most of those swinging on the tour.  The best way to put it for description purposes would be to look at it like this.  There are more people out there who's swing looks like David Ledbetter than Charlie Wi on the PGA tour.

My apologies for getting off the topic of Moe Norman.