Address/Setup Numbers Challenge

[iacas]

I teach a lot of golfers to get their weight out of their heels. I don't always talk about it the same - with some I have them bend their knees less, or create more space between their hands and zipper, or tell them I want their arms to hang down closer to vertical… I'm pretty sure it happens less and less, but in the 90s people were definitely taught the "straight back, chin up, butt out" type of setup… despite no good players actually setting up this way.

This thread piggybacks and extends off of this great topic by @mvmac:

So, here's what I'd like you to do to complete this challenge:

1. Find a video of you (or record one if you don't have one already) at setup in preparation to hit a 6-iron or 7-iron from down-the-line. Make sure your camera is at about hand height and parallel to the target line on the back toes.
2. Draw the following lines, measuring the angles where you're told:
   • Butt vertically down.
   • Center of hips vertically down.
   • Angle of trail arm.
   • Angle of torso tilt forward.
3. Do these first without consciously changing anything. That's why it's best if you use a very recent video, but one that pre-dates this topic.
4. Post a picture like the one I've posted below showing these off. You can use my image(s) below as cheat sheets.
5. Compare your numbers or spots to the numbers listed at the bottom of this post.

This isn't a challenge for a badge or anything, it's just another challenge to make you a little better, or at least more aware.

My Picture(s) and Pictures of Some Pros

These photos are from early in my session on January 27. Later in the session I decreased my knee bend a little and added a bit more forward bend to about 34°.

Some PGA Tour pros (or former, as I don't know where Hunter is playing these days):

Numbers for Comparison

Everyone is built a bit differently, and there's no one particular "perfect" setup, so the numbers vary a bit. But they're in a pretty small window or range:

• Arm hang is roughly between 2° inward and 5° outward. Tiger has always stood obnoxiously close to the golf ball, even with longer irons, perhaps due to his slightly shorter arms, and Rickie's arms hang lower so his arms hang out farther to give himself a bit more space.
• Torso tilts are between 33° and 40°, with Dufner busting out of that one (and me, before I made a small adjustment).
• Butt lines fell between about 2-4" behind the golfer only, with Dufner (due to his slightly steeper forward bend) and Old Justin Rose (it's less now) being at the 4" range.
• Center-of-hip lines fell between the back of the heel and the front of the ankle knob.

That's it! Let's see yours!

[saevel25]

This is for a 6-iron,

Arms: ~5 degrees out
Torso: ~34 degrees
Butt: ~4 inches (I think I tend to sit back too far sometimes in the past)
Center of Hips: Good spot

[boogielicious]

31 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

This is for a 6-iron,

Arms: ~5 degrees out
Torso: ~34 degrees
Butt: ~4 inches (I think I tend to sit back too far sometimes in the past)
Center of Hips: Good spot

What did you use to draw the lines?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

What did you use to draw the lines?

Analyzr - Golf Video Analysis Software for Mac OS X

Analyzr. 🙂

[boogielicious]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Analyzr - Golf Video Analysis Software for Mac OS X

Analyzr. 🙂

Alas, my old Mac can’t use it anymore. I guess it’s time for an upgrade. 

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Alas, my old Mac can’t use it anymore. I guess it’s time for an upgrade. 

Erik's ploy is going to work now. Get people to buy Analyzr! 😛 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Alas, my old Mac can’t use it anymore. I guess it’s time for an upgrade. 

Various means of doing it.

Even using something like this: https://xscopeapp.com. The demo might let you measure, too.

 

[boogielicious]

Found a workaround with Analyzer

[woodzie264]

I can’t figure out how to make this program/site measure the way you guys are doing it, but since I don’t have Mac, I used a different site than Analyzer, but it seems like inferences can be made. 
 

my weight appears to be too far back over my heels?

My spine angle appears roughly 45*, which is higher (I presume because my weight is too far back)

 

and I don’t know what to say or make from this other than I measured it as best I could 🙃

 

if I’m measuring something incorrectly or can gain some insight from these measurements, please let me know!

[iacas]

9 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Found a workaround with Analyzer

Scott, FTFY:

It's cheating to make your camera tilted. Unless your garage is that askew… 🙂

7 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

My spine angle appears roughly 45*, which is higher (I presume because my weight is too far back)

Wouldn't that be about 35°?

145° is 55° from 90, and 35° from 180°.

[mvmac]

Left one is what @iacas posted, right one are some preferences I've seen from some biomechanics people.

Blue line is the hip joint, green is center of the foot, yellow is middle of the shoulder.
1. Middle of shoulder in line with front of toes
2. Body mass equal on both sides of the line drawn up through the middle of the foot
3. Hip joint plumb to back of the ankle (hip hinge).

 

 

 

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Scott, FTFY:

It's cheating to make your camera tilted. Unless your garage is that askew… 🙂

Wouldn't that be about 35°?

145° is 55° from 90, and 35° from 180°.

There is literally nothing in my house or yard that is level except the base I’m standing on. I try to level the camera off that.😜

[woodzie264]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Wouldn't that be about 35°?

145° is 55° from 90, and 35° from 180°.

🤔 Of course, duh 🙄;  I was testing you, obviously 😐

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay, recent 7 iron. (Jan 30, 2021) I know my stance is very close to target. Working on it. 

[iacas]

An Instagram post/Tweet from today:

 

[colin007]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:54 AM, iacas said:

 @mvmac

1. Tiger has always stood obnoxiously close to the golf ball, even with longer irons, perhaps due to his slightly shorter arms, 

Rahm seems to stand abnormally close to the ball also, no?

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Rahm seems to stand abnormally close to the ball also, no?

Pro golfers all tend to stand pretty close to the ball.

29" ball to center of ankles with a 7I on average.