NCAA Football 2021

[Vinsk]

Agree that MI should’ve jumped Cincy. I sure wasn’t impressed with Alabama against LSU. I don’t really excuse the Purdue loss as they apparently did. Why? Because it can’t be forgotten that Purdue has lost to Minnesota and Wisconsin. Oh, so if you’re a power 5 look out, but if you’re a bum or a mediocre team…that’s a pass. No. I know it was a bigger score gap, but OSU was crucified when they lost to Purdue in November 2019? MSU should’ve been tanked for that loss.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Vinsk

[Bucki1968]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, saevel25 said:

As for my Buckeyes, their O-line needs to get better in run blocking up the middle. When a dynamic RB is held to 4-yards per carry, with his longest run of 24-ish yards coming late in the 4th quarter means that there was shit blocking. 

It's pretty easy to stop the run when the defensive ends and linebackers don't have to worry about the qb running the ball. It's still an "read" rushing attack with no reads ever. Fields didn't really run much last year (or the year before) but he did it enough that the defense had to commit defenders to stopping it. If we aren't going to run the qb, put another blocker in the backfield to fill a gap and pull some guards. They occasionally will use a tight end for that purpose but he usually becomes the "pulling guard" and the running back gets tackled from the backside because no one is blocking the Will linebacker (and he knows the qb is not  going to pull it). If CJ would just pull it a couple times a game....there is literally no counter run threat at all.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Bucki1968
spelling

[Vinsk]

15 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

It's pretty easy to stop the run when the defensive ends and linebackers don't have to worry about the qb running the ball. It's still an "read" rushing attack with no reads ever. Fields didn't really run much last year (or the year before) but he did it enough that the defense had to commit defenders to stopping it. If we aren't going to run the qb, put another blocker in the backfield to fill a gap and pull some guards. They occasionally will use a tight end for that purpose but he usually becomes the "pulling guard" and the running back gets tackled from the backside because no one is blocking the Will linebacker (and he knows the qb is not  going to pull it). If CJ would just pull it a couple times a game....there is literally no counter run threat at all.

That’s what’s odd about OSU as it seems ( with the exception of Elliot) the QB often makes more impact on rushing than the RB. So many times OSU QB will step up from the pocket then have a wide open field to pick up a first down or more. But CJ just doesn’t seem to capitalize on this as much as previous QBs. 
But again, despite the rather lack luster win over Nebraska ( toughest losing team to beat) I still think the eye test has OSU considerably stronger than either Cincy, MSU or MI imo.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Vinsk

[saevel25]

38 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

It's pretty easy to stop the run when the defensive ends and linebackers don't have to worry about the qb running the ball.

There are teams in the top 15 of rushing (by average) who do not have QB's that run. You do not need a QB run threat to run the ball. BLOCK BETTER!

39 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

It's still an "read" rushing attack with no reads ever.

No it's not. People don't understand this. They are in a pistol set. To hand the ball off, the QB just steps to the side and holds the ball out. He is not reading anyone, he its a hand-off with zone blocking. Just because he looks like he's running the read option doesn't mean that is the play, or how it is designed. Its how you hand off from the pistol set.

40 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Fields didn't really run much last year (or the year before) but he did it enough that the defense had to commit defenders to stopping it.

Shroud isn't fields. He doesn't run nearly a sub 4.4 40

41 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

If we aren't going to run the qb, put another blocker in the backfield to fill a gap and pull some guards. They occasionally will use a tight end for that purpose but he usually becomes the "pulling guard" and the running back gets tackled from the backside because no one is blocking the Will linebacker (and he knows the qb is not  going to pull it).

I do think we need to start running more gap schemes. We have done so in the past. 

The TE's have blocked bad this year. 

There are plenty of teams that run zone concepts with out a read and it works well. Michigan is averaging over 150 yards versus power-5 teams, and one of their staples is a outside zone blocking. Zone blocking is not limited to just option football. 

28 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

That’s what’s odd about OSU as it seems ( with the exception of Elliot) the QB often makes more impact on rushing than the RB. So many times OSU QB will step up from the pocket then have a wide open field to pick up a first down or more. But CJ just doesn’t seem to capitalize on this as much as previous QBs. 

I have no issue with QB's wanting to throw the ball as much as possible, even on roll outs. What he can not do is force the ball, and if he can get 5-7 yards, do it. To many times, QB's will just take off and run if nothing is there. I like what Shroud is doing. He steps up in the pocket really well. He has a good sense for pressure. He extends plays. He just needs to be a tad better at not forcing it when he gets outside the pocket and run (even if it is for 3-yards, slide early) versus finding an open receiver because its hard to cover someone for 5 seconds. 

Day doesn't recruit the mobile QB's like Urban did. 

 

[Bucki1968]

Yes I understand that out of the pistol it's a straight run. But when they put the back next to CJ and they usually will put the tight end in a wing back position, it looks like zone read to me. Sometimes we run what looks like veer out of that formation and it usually works (and then we don't run it anymore). Yes, Stroud isn't Fields, I get that, and I am not getting on CJ (I think he's played well this year for a first year kid), but just the threat of him pulling one would slow down the ends/linebackers enough to get a slightly bigger crease for Henderson (or even Williams) to get some positive yards. I do think they can get the running game going this week against Purdue. I know they have a good defense but I think we can run it against them.  I could swear I saw them run the zone read in the spring game with CJ. I'm wondering if they are "hanging on to it" for when they need it. I believe he ran it in high school?

[saevel25]

22 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Yes I understand that out of the pistol it's a straight run. But when they put the back next to CJ and they usually will put the tight end in a wing back position, it looks like zone read to me.

I think that is just because of how they hand the ball off. 

I do think its a scheme issue in terms of trying to gain an extra blocker on the left side. The defenses are just assigning the other LB to the TE, and having the freed up LB just crash down. There is probably some plays they could run to put that LB in a bind. Like, maybe 2-RB set, and have the RB run a route to where that LB was. I think it's called a Texas Route. 

They ran this route concept before with Dobbins. 

 

[saevel25]

Ohio State Isn’t Telling C.J. Stroud Not to Run, But Isn’t Expecting Him to Run the Ball Frequently

---

While Ryan Day and Kevin Wilson aren’t telling C.J. Stroud not to run, they aren’t calling many run plays for Stroud as they look to keep their starting quarterback healthy.

 

Quote

“Guys have run here before, and when it’s appropriate, we do. But also, it’s clear that we don’t run it as much as some of the other places. And I tell people that in recruiting. We’re not gonna come here and just run you into the ground,” Day said Tuesday. “It’s a long season. And we’ve got really good players on offense. So when the time is right and we need to do it, we gotta do it. But at the same time, putting our guys at risk for a long season is not something we do here. And I believe strongly in that. That quarterback position is a very important position.”

I am fine with this statement, but the scheme has to match it. If the scheme is broken, because the backside LB or End is unblocked, then the scheme needs to adjust. 

[Vinsk]

Lol! Well….OU finally got what was coming. They’re done. You can’t be a BIG12 team and lose ( even to a ranked team) in November and have any chance. Especially when they already had five one loss teams ahead of them. Michigan slipped by an ailing and unranked PSU so they’ll get accolades to no end. It’s pretty much done. Alabama/Georgia/Cincy/OSU. OSU will absolutely humiliate Cincy and the committee will finally see they wasted their time on them.

[klineka]

Assuming they don't completely implode in the 2nd half, surely this performance by OSU over a top 25 team should be enough to have them jump Oregon, right?

It's pretty obvious OSU is a different team now than what they were when they played Oregon. I'm just not seeing the justification/logic that supports the playoff committee's stance that Oregon is a better team than OSU right now.

[Vinsk]

Just now, klineka said:

Assuming they don't completely implode in the 2nd half, surely this performance by OSU over a top 25 team should be enough to have them jump Oregon, right?

It's pretty obvious OSU is a different team now than what they were when they played Oregon. I'm just not seeing the justification/logic that supports the playoff committee's stance that Oregon is a better team than OSU right now.

100% agree. No way Oregon belongs above OSU. 

[dennyjones]

The way I see it right now, there are the 3 real complete teams; Ohio, Alabama and Georgia.   Whichever team ends up #4 will get run over in the playoffs.  I can see a scenario where Notre Dame makes the playoffs over Oregon.   

[klineka]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

100% agree. No way Oregon belongs above OSU. 

They just put up 59 against a top 25 team and it easily could have been 66 had they wanted to on the final drive. They had 518 yds of offense through 3 quarters.

Oregon simply isn't that good. I'll be shocked if OSU doesn't jump them this week.

[dennyjones]

Ohio opens up as an 19.5 point favorite over MSU!   This will be the game to watch.   

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

Ohio opens up as an 19.5 point favorite over MSU!   This will be the game to watch.   

I really don’t see MSU giving OSU any trouble. Cincinnati got more hope with OU laying an egg. Another power five is not undefeated now. The question is if MI will jump Cincy. And what to do with annoying Oregon? They’re playing Utah on the road. Wouldn’t be surprised if they choke that game. Now that my main team is out, I’m just waiting for one of the real teams to shut this nonsense Cincinnati team who has been clinging on to their ND win for weeks. 

[saevel25]

Another week of college football. 

-Georgia still showing it's the best and most complete team. 
-Ohio St. found its groove back on Offense. I'll give the defense a pass this week since it is difficult to face a team who just throws it 50-60 times a game. Especially, against a QB who has found their groove. 
-Alabama had a bye week, I mean they beat up on a poor New Mexico State during the middle of their conference schedule. 
-OU finally couldn't overcome their deficiencies. The QB messiah, Caleb Williams threw for 50% and threw 2-INT's.
-Michigan might be dangerous. I thought, in Happy Valley, they might crumble, but they played out an entire game against a very gritty team. I still think it's a talent issue, and matchup issue versus Ohio State. Their threat level is rising each week they don't implode. If OSU beats MSU this coming weekend, then MSU will have 2-losses in conference. That leaves Ohio State and Michigan as the only 1-loss or 0-loss team in the east. If Michigan wins, they go to the B10 championship game. If OSU wins, they go. It will also be a game between two possible top-5 teams! Oh man, finally a game with the rival that has a lot riding on the outcome. 
-Nebraska is still the best 7-loss team ever. 7 losses, by less than a touchdown on average. They played 3 top-10 teams, and a total of 5 top-25 teams. 

If I had to guess the CFP rankings this week...

1. Georgia
2. Alabama 
3. Oregon
4. Ohio State
5. Michigan
6. Cincy
7. MSU
8. Notre Dame
9. OU State
10. Baylor

Though, I wouldn't be shocked if Ohio State finally jumped Oregon. 

[klineka]

36 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If I had to guess the CFP rankings this week...

1. Georgia
2. Alabama 
3. Oregon
4. Ohio State
5. Michigan
6. Cincy
7. MSU
8. Notre Dame
9. OU State
10. Baylor

Though, I wouldn't be shocked if Ohio State finally jumped Oregon. 

I just don't see the logic that puts Oregon over OSU when looking at who is the better team right now.

OSU is 9th in strength of schedule, Oregon is 39th. So OSU has been significantly more dominant against harder opponents than Oregon.

OSU is ranked #1 in yds/g, Oregon is 32nd. 

OSU is ranked #1 in ppg, Oregon is 22nd.

Oregon is 59th in yds allowed per game, OSU is 60th.

OSU is 23rd in ppg allowed, Oregon is 41st. 

So OSU has the best offense in the country, with a similar level defense as Oregon, all while playing against more difficult opponents, yet Oregon is still ranked higher than OSU?

I mean FFS OSU just blew out a top 25 team by 4 TDs while Oregon beat an unranked team by 14 and they were tied at halftime in that game and there's still question as to if OSU is the better team between the two right now?? I don't get it.

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, klineka said:

I just don't see the logic that puts Oregon over OSU when looking at who is the better team right now.

Week by week changes. I am taking it similar to what the committee would do. Honestly, it is a coin flip right now because Oregon beat OSU. I do think OSU has done enough since then to possible warrant OSU above Oregon. 

24 minutes ago, klineka said:

OSU is ranked #1 in yds/g, Oregon is 32nd. 

OSU is ranked #1 in ppg, Oregon is 22nd.

From a stat standpoint, OSU finally beat up on a defense that was doing pretty good this year. Purdue's defense was like a 25-35th ranked defense. I was concerned with how OSU performed versus PSU and Nebraska, being those two defenses are probably like 10th thru 25th. Purdue's defense is a DRASTIC decrease in quality. Also, PSU and Nebraska kind-of showed how to neutralize OSU's run game a bit. Purdue didn't take advantage of it. 

25 minutes ago, klineka said:

So OSU has the best offense in the country, with a similar level defense as Oregon, all while playing against more difficult opponents, yet Oregon is still ranked higher than OSU?

I wouldn't say playing significantly more difficult schedule as of yet. 

This is only after 2-games ago, not this past game... 

By statistics, a good football team would average around 2.5 losses versus OSU schedule and 2.5 losses versus Oregon's schedule. So, it wasn't that much difference two weeks ago. After this week, it probably changed more in OSU favor. I do think OSU has been more dominant versus similar schedule. 

Again, it is weighting the head to head loss versus what have you done in the past 7 weeks. Maybe I should put OSU above Oregon. My initial thought was, it is a coin flip and I will give the Head to Head more weighting. 

 

[dennyjones]

I think you guys are giving Michigan too much credit.   Yah, they should beat Maryland and it will come down to OSU and UM for the division championship.   I don't think Michigan has the offense to keep up with OSU.   Michigan's defense is good but they give up too many yards passing and won't be able to stop Ohio's passing attack.