Pine Valley to Admit Women

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

This is a good start for Pine Valley.  But how 'bout some ordinary women members, not just pro and amateur standouts?!  I'm sure there are women out there who can break 90 and also be "socially compatible", though I'm not quite sure what that means.

So now, it begs the question:  What kind of scores do their male members shoot? 

Good scores. They're pretty good players, most of 'em. Just like at Oakmont. Not many chops.

[Big Lex]

Meh. Being a single-sex club is on the wrong side of history? That seems harsh. It's a leisure pursuit, a social club, not the right to vote. 

I am very happy for the membership that they are welcoming such great players into their club. 

[StuM]

I was a little on the fence between "Meh" and "Better Late than Never" but settled on "Better Late than Never" because inclusion is good for the game in general.  Sure, there are other places to golf but if you are a member and can't bring your daughter to the course to golf then that may inhibit her getting into the game.  Do not know much about Pine Valley and if children of members are even welcome to play with the "Skill Requirement" possibly limiting many younger golfers just starting out.  Still, I think inclusion is good for the game.

[Esox]

It's a private club, not a public accommodation. What they do is their business.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, Esox said:

It's a private club, not a public accommodation. What they do is their business.

That is true.  They are allowed to look as silly and dated, and as sexist as they want to.

[iacas]

53 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

That is true.  They are allowed to look as silly and dated, and as sexist as they want to.

And they would (and were) suffering the ramifications of it.

For example:

Elite N.J. golf club that finally opened to women was focus of discrimination investigation

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Pine Valley has been the focus of a years-long civil rights investigation apparently focused on who calls the place home.

The title of that article is… "Elite N.J. golf club that finally opened to women was focus of discrimination investigation"

[imsys0042]

I think its great.   Imagine being a female golf fanatic, who has the money and connections to get in….and not being able to simply because she was a woman and I think that’s 100% wrong.  

[iacas]

Civil rights complaint filed against Pine Valley GC for ‘pattern of gender-based discrimination’

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Three weeks ago, Golf WRX reported on a press conference held at Augusta by Fred Ridley, where he commented that, “Women members are a very important part of our membership, and you will continue to see...

[Brown E]

How about people who do not consider themselves male or female? Not trying to be smart here.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, Brown E said:

How about people who do not consider themselves male or female? Not trying to be smart here.

I'm sorry, but what is the point of this post if you're not trying to be smart?

The article states that the club removed all gender specific language from its bylaws.

[Brown E]

Sorry billchao, I did not see that language. Just kept seeing men/women.

[Esox]

On 7/23/2021 at 4:48 PM, imsys0042 said:

I think its great.   Imagine being a female golf fanatic, who has the money and connections to get in….and not being able to simply because she was a woman and I think that’s 100% wrong.  

I understand where you are coming from, but on the other side of the coin, it is a PRIVATE club. And last I checked, the Constitution still assured us freedom of association. No one is stopping anyone from joining a club where they are welcome, or even starting their own. I view this as akin to suing because you weren't invited to a private dinner party you wanted to attend........

[imsys0042]

33 minutes ago, Esox said:

I understand where you are coming from, but on the other side of the coin, it is a PRIVATE club. And last I checked, the Constitution still assured us freedom of association. No one is stopping anyone from joining a club where they are welcome, or even starting their own. I view this as akin to suing because you weren't invited to a private dinner party you wanted to attend........

Did you read the article?   The exact issue was that the club owned land that could only be sold to members, which are only men, so that could violate housing laws.  It’s not clear whether that investigation prompted them to admin women or not.  The following article has to do with complaints that after women were admitted that they have restrictive memberships that did not accord them full access.

so from what I read, no one sued because they couldn’t get in.  Rather there was a problem with Pine Valley’s ownership and community involvement.  After women members were let in, their memberships were not equal from the complaint, so that absolutely should be looked at.   I don’t think women should have less access then men at golf courses.

Legally you are probably correct that courts should not force membership for people.  However that doesn’t make it right nor should people not bring pressure to bear on clubs that discriminate against people based on gender (among other things).  Whether it’s the #1 golf course in the world, or a local track that happens to be private, why should someone not get the opportunity to be a part of it simply because they are a woman?  
 

the last two clubs I’ve belong to, one public and one private, there have been equal opportunities for men and women, which I applaud.  Aside from gender specific tournaments, there is equal access.  Although mostly men, there are women who play in the weekly money games and it’s all good.   Just like men who might play from the senior tees, handicaps are adjusted and everything seems to work well.

[iacas]

And now they're going to host the Curtis Cup in 2034!

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2023/07/pine-valley-golf-club-to-host-2034-curtis-cup-match.html

I wonder if the Curtis Cup will be on TV by then… 😉