Why All the Long Driver Shafts?

[wakefield724]

As the years progress and technological advancements become limited due to USGA regulations, companies are increasing the length of their drivers to increase distance. I was fit a few years by Golf Galaxy with a M5 with X-stiff 47" inch shaft. They increased the length as I am 6'8". For years I could never be truly consistent with it and often opted to use my 5Iron off the tee. After researching about the gear tour players use, I cut down my shaft to 43.75". What a MASSIVE difference. My fairway percentage has increased by 27% and I have confidence to shape my shots off the tee. 

Do you feel this type of sales tactic is good for the sport? Yes players are hitting further than ever, but with so many new golfers in the sport, decreased accuracy and consistency theoretically can be causing higher scores. Should companies focus more of setting players up for scoring success, rather than getting ready to compete in long drive competitions?

My unpopular opinion. I feel drivers are overused and not as needed for the majority of amateur courses. With most courses having Par 4's between 290-325 yards, for many people it would be more consistent to hit a 200 yard club then a full wedge shot. Obviously as handicaps lower this belief changes, but for most 90+ scorers this is my belief. 

[Shindig]

I'm confused on a few things.  I apologize if it seems like I'm picking on you;  I'm trying to understand what you're saying so I can better evaluate the information.

You went from driver to 5-iron off the tee -- do you carry anything in between?  I have three clubs between the two in my bag;  some people have four clubs between the two.

At a 12 index, how often are you playing courses where fairways are the important aspect off the tee?  Same question with shot shaping being an important aspect of a tee shot.  

With the longer driver shaft, you were probably more consistent than you give yourself credit for -- usually, when I see someone complain about a lack of consistency, what they're really saying is they wish their aberrations were their usual shot.  

I am also trying to figure out a course with par 4s averaging, at the upper end, 325 yards.   If I were to move up a set of tees at my home course, the shortest par-4 I'd see is 335.  If I moved up two sets, I'd see only two par-4s under 325 yards;  the third-shortest from those is 328 yards. 

I think most 90+ scorers (and probably most of everyone else) should be playing the tee shot that they can get into play the furthest from the tee.  

That having been said... a 47" driver shaft seems excessive.  I'm a good foot shorter than you are and mine is 44.5" (my first and so far only driver fitting... bought it in April 2015, so things may have changed since).  If your shorter driver shaft is doing well for you, that's great (and I think hitting driver off the tee is preferable to a 5-iron when both are options).  Did you experiment with anything in between?  I would wonder if, say, a 45" driver shaft might get you more distance without meaningfully sacrificing the playability of the shot.

[ncates00]

35 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

My unpopular opinion. I feel drivers are overused and not as needed for the majority of amateur courses. With most courses having Par 4's between 290-325 yards, for many people it would be more consistent to hit a 200 yard club then a full wedge shot.

An unpopular opinion, indeed. Moreover, it’s statistically incorrect as well. Strokes gained data and other studies show that off the tee is one of the most important areas, behind only approaching the green. Distance is the largest component of the stat, as well. Obviously, hitting balls out of play will negate any distance gain, but the fairway is overrated in most circumstances—unless you’re playing the US Open. Therefore, it is imperative that golfers, regardless of ability level, learn to hit driver very well. Note: that doesn’t mean you hit driver on every hole; choose the lighter colored shot zone and play the appropriate shot. That might be driver or it might be a 5i; it depends on the circumstances. See LSW for more on this. 
 

A longer shaft can help create more speed, and in turn, ball speed and distance. However, it could also affect a person’s sense of timing, and therefore, a longer shaft may not be the best option. Each golfer should try things out and see how it fits their game. 

[wakefield724]

8 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I'm confused on a few things.  I apologize if it seems like I'm picking on you;  I'm trying to understand what you're saying so I can better evaluate the information.

You went from driver to 5-iron off the tee -- do you carry anything in between?  I have three clubs between the two in my bag;  some people have four clubs between the two.

At a 12 index, how often are you playing courses where fairways are the important aspect off the tee?  Same question with shot shaping being an important aspect of a tee shot.  

With the longer driver shaft, you were probably more consistent than you give yourself credit for -- usually, when I see someone complain about a lack of consistency, what they're really saying is they wish their aberrations were their usual shot.  

I am also trying to figure out a course with par 4s averaging, at the upper end, 325 yards.   If I were to move up a set of tees at my home course, the shortest par-4 I'd see is 335.  If I moved up two sets, I'd see only two par-4s under 325 yards;  the third-shortest from those is 328 yards. 

I think most 90+ scorers (and probably most of everyone else) should be playing the tee shot that they can get into play the furthest from the tee.  

That having been said... a 47" driver shaft seems excessive.  I'm a good foot shorter than you are and mine is 44.5" (my first and so far only driver fitting... bought it in April 2015, so things may have changed since).  If your shorter driver shaft is doing well for you, that's great (and I think hitting driver off the tee is preferable to a 5-iron when both are options).  Did you experiment with anything in between?  I would wonder if, say, a 45" driver shaft might get you more distance without meaningfully sacrificing the playability of the shot.

Not picking on me and thank you for the reply. 

I still use my 5-iron often as I can get it out there around 215. Most of the time that leaves a 60-50 degree wedge shot which I can get on the green most of the time. Better strategy to do this rather than taking penalty strokes or get put in a bad position for those random shots in the woods. I have a 3H between the driver, but my 5 is much more consistent. 

Judging by your response, I believe you and I only differ opinions on golf strategy. Yes mid-handicappers can be consistent with a driver, but the risks of the 1 or 2 drives per round that leads to penalty strokes or more strokes outweigh the benefits of further distances. This strategy is even more relevant with high handicappers. For every 2 holes they may gain 40 yards of distance, there will be that hole they are searching for a ball and hitting their 3rd shot from a bad position. 

I am glad a 44.5 works for you. Different clubs work for different people. I did try 45" and achieved decent results. Switching to a 43.75" only lost me less than 12 yards per drive but improved my fairway percentage while decreasing penalty strokes/rough lies. 

[Shindig]

2 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Not picking on me and thank you for the reply. 

I still use my 5-iron often as I can get it out there around 215. Most of the time that leaves a 60-50 degree wedge shot which I can get on the green most of the time. Better strategy to do this rather than taking penalty strokes or get put in a bad position for those random shots in the woods. I have a 3H between the driver, but my 5 is much more consistent. 

Judging by your response, I believe you and I only differ opinions on golf strategy. Yes mid-handicappers can be consistent with a driver, but the risks of the 1 or 2 drives per round that leads to penalty strokes or more strokes outweigh the benefits of further distances. This strategy is even more relevant with high handicappers. For every 2 holes they may gain 40 yards of distance, there will be that hole they are searching for a ball and hitting their 3rd shot from a bad position. 

I am glad a 44.5 works for you. Different clubs work for different people. I did try 45" and achieved decent results. Switching to a 43.75" only lost me less than 12 yards per drive but improved my fairway percentage while decreasing penalty strokes/rough lies. 

Okay, part of this is the distance difference:  my 5-iron gets me 160-165.  On most par-4s that I play, I'd be giving up the ability to go for a GIR if I hit a 5-iron off the tee.    My driver average (observed) the past ten rounds was 206 yards (I wish I could more easily calculate 75th percentile for this).  For a hole to be, say, 5-iron gap wedge for me, it'd have to be something like 260 yards (at which point, depending on hazards, I'd be more likely to hit driver anyway off such a tee).

Any level player can benefit from knowing, given a particular aiming position, where their driver (and other candidate tee clubs) will end up.  If they know their miss tends to be a slice, they can figure out, for each hole, where they can aim.  If their slice is big enough (or the hole narrow enough) that aiming where a straight shot puts them in the first cut on the left, and a slice takes them O.B. right, then yes, they need a shorter club on that hole.  If they're aiming down the middle and often end up in the right rough, the club isn't the problem (and I don't think rough should be viewed as a problem for most mid-handicap players on most courses -- with obvious exceptions if, say, they're playing Oakmont.  Certainly not to the point of sacrificing distance if what they're avoiding is an occasional shot out of the rough).

By the way, when I said consistent earlier, I didn't necessarily mean "consistently good."  Ten years ago, I was consistently hitting my driver 190 yards off the tee, except for the occasional aberration where I'd hit it 230 and then I'd say I wish I were more consistent, before someone pointed out that if I got my wish, my better drives would be the ones going away. 

But the upshot of the consistent (meaning just that) is that many players don't have a two-way big miss.

[wakefield724]

13 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

An unpopular opinion, indeed. Moreover, it’s statistically incorrect as well. Strokes gained data and other studies show that off the tee is one of the most important areas, behind only approaching the green. Distance is the largest component of the stat, as well. Obviously, hitting balls out of play will negate any distance gain, but the fairway is overrated in most circumstances—unless you’re playing the US Open. Therefore, it is imperative that golfers, regardless of ability level, learn to hit driver very well. Note: that doesn’t mean you hit driver on every hole; choose the lighter colored shot zone and play the appropriate shot. That might be driver or it might be a 5i; it depends on the circumstances. See LSW for more on this. 
 

A longer shaft can help create more speed, and in turn, ball speed and distance. However, it could also affect a person’s sense of timing, and therefore, a longer shaft may not be the best option. Each golfer should try things out and see how it fits their game. 

Thanks for the reply,

I would like to read this study you are referring to. I am interested if they study is on tour players or amateur players as that would make a big difference. I fully agree that players should not use a driver on every hole and try different things out to see how it fits their game. I also agree that the fairway is overrated on most courses, but higher fairway percentages correlates to less penalty strokes and less danger. I am not against drivers. I am against the long shafts that are sold as the standard to players. If the average tour player who's job is golfing does not use a longer driver shaft as they are not as accurate with it, how can anyone expect a golfer who plays less than 3 dozen times annually to be successful with a long driver shaft?

[Shindig]

13 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

I would like to read this study you are referring to. I am interested if they study is on tour players or amateur players as that would make a big difference.

The two top resources for the study and its applications are:

Every Shots Counts by Mark Broadie.  This is very in-depth and very math-oriented, with a few sections about applying it to your game.  The study that produced this book had a large number of amateurs of varying abilities and full access to the PGA Tour's Shotlink data.  I got my copy on Amazon a few years ago and I've read it a few times.  I have even mentioned it to some of my students (one of the computational techniques used in the study is something I teach -- I don't teach golf).

Lowest Score Wins by Erik Barzeski and David Wedzik.  This is far more approachable and is more about applying the results to your game.  https://lowestscorewins.com/  has the ordering information.

 

[pganapathy]

2 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

As the years progress and technological advancements become limited due to USGA regulations, companies are increasing the length of their drivers to increase distance. I was fit a few years by Golf Galaxy with a M5 with X-stiff 47" inch shaft. They increased the length as I am 6'8". For years I could never be truly consistent with it and often opted to use my 5Iron off the tee. After researching about the gear tour players use, I cut down my shaft to 43.75". What a MASSIVE difference. My fairway percentage has increased by 27% and I have confidence to shape my shots off the tee. 

Do you feel this type of sales tactic is good for the sport? Yes players are hitting further than ever, but with so many new golfers in the sport, decreased accuracy and consistency theoretically can be causing higher scores. Should companies focus more of setting players up for scoring success, rather than getting ready to compete in long drive competitions?

My unpopular opinion. I feel drivers are overused and not as needed for the majority of amateur courses. With most courses having Par 4's between 290-325 yards, for many people it would be more consistent to hit a 200 yard club then a full wedge shot. Obviously as handicaps lower this belief changes, but for most 90+ scorers this is my belief. 

Companies are increasing the length of shafts because it is easier to sell a longer club/ball to a player than one which has less dispersion.  Sadly, ego's don't permit players to think rationally.

 

Unfortunately most courses I play on don't have many short par 4's where hitting a 200 yard club will give me a wedge in.  Additionally, I believe that I would rather hit from 40 yards as opposed to 100 yards, even if it is half a wedge.  Most high handicap players are more accurate from closer rather than trying to hit a full 9i or PW.  The odds that they will hit the green are reduced from distance

[Shindig]

5 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Additionally, I believe that I would rather hit from 40 yards as opposed to 100 yards, even if it is half a wedge.  Most high handicap players are more accurate from closer rather than trying to hit a full 9i or PW.  The odds that they will hit the green are reduced from distance

It isn't just high handicap players;  pros are more accurate from those distances.  And from 100-125 yards in the fairway, a PGA Tour pro will miss the green one time in five.

[pganapathy]

8 minutes ago, Shindig said:

It isn't just high handicap players;  pros are more accurate from those distances.  And from 100-125 yards in the fairway, a PGA Tour pro will miss the green one time in five.

True, but for high handicap players the ratio is a lot worse.  And pro's are more than willing to lay up to a favourite distance and hit their choice of club from there.  Very few amateurs can do that effectively.  For them, getting closer is always better, unless they can't chip.  I have a few friends I play with who are like that.  One chips left handed only and the other uses a putter provided he doesn't have a bunker or water to go over

[Shorty]

4 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

With most courses having Par 4's between 290-325 yards, 

What? Holes this short should typically be risk reward holes where a missed drive puts you in serious trouble so many would be laying up anyway.

As to the rest of you thesis, the reason why people hit drivers off the tee is because they don't want to be hitting fairway woods for their second shots into par 4s.

Not everyone plays courses where they expect to hit wedges into every par 4. You might need to play a wider variety of golf courses. Hit irons off every tee if you want to get to a handicap of 20 and stay there.

And.... if everyone had a "200 yard club" they could hit consistently straight they'd do it frequently. For most, this shot is as unreliable as their driver. So hit driver.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Shorty