How did you get to a single digit handicap?

[theworldengine]

One regret I have is that I don't have the finances to take lessons, due to circumstances and time and such. Maybe I can in the future, so really I have improved through pure determination to succeed. Arming myself with knowledge and sorting through things. I'm with you that this is taking longer than if I had someone to observe my swing. I really think I would be shooting lower if I was coached. I'm still convinced I can shoot to a single digit handicap as a self taught golfer for me it's a few keys areas physical as in training the body, technical the mechanics of my swing, course strategy smart club choices, and mental approach to every shot. I'm working through this all by myself but thankfully the internet and books, and this forum are very helpful. The key part of this is taking information and implementing it into the swing. That's the part that decides whether you improve or not. I know there are other factors involved but getting the mind and body together and a lot of golfers could be single digit handicaps.

In my experience you may only need one lesson. In my one lesson I was given enough stuff to work on to keep me occupied for a year. Until you master everything from that one lesson, then maybe go back for further guidance.

[Micah]

Unless you happen to be blessed with natural athletic ability and already know the fundamentals, mechanics and physics of the game lessons are a waste of time. I was an all state QB in high school and pitched in college so when I started playing golf long ago at the age of 16 it came easy for me than others. Not saying lessons are a total waste of time and money but if youre like me then self taught and becoming a "feel" golfer is the way to go.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Micah

Unless you happen to be blessed with natural athletic ability and already know the fundamentals, mechanics and physics of the game lessons are a waste of time. I was an all state QB in high school and pitched in college so when I started playing golf long ago at the age of 16 it came easy for me than others. Not saying lessons are a total waste of time and money but if youre like me then self taught and becoming a "feel" golfer is the way to go.

1) you just contradicted your self. Which one is it. I can say its the 2nd one. Lessons are not a waste of time, even the best golfer in the world needs instruction. He needs someone to bounce ideas off of, to look at his swing from a different perspective. It might not be as basic as most instructions, but its important.

2) Everyone is a feel golfer, you need feel to have mechanics, if not, then you'd probably hit yourself with your own club in the swing.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by saevel25

1) you just contradicted your self. Which one is it. I can say its the 2nd one. Lessons are not a waste of time, even the best golfer in the world needs instruction. He needs someone to bounce ideas off of, to look at his swing from a different perspective. It might not be as basic as most instructions, but its important.

2) Everyone is a feel golfer, you need feel to have mechanics, if not, then you'd probably hit yourself with your own club in the swing.

Yep. I'm naturally athletic, and made more progress in 2 months with a lesson, than 2 years without. It's not rocket surgery...

[Micah]

Its not a contradiction if you read the entire sentence. Youre taking bits and fragments from what I posted out of context. Please drink some coffee, wake up and re-read the post in its entirety.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I need rocket surgery.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Micah

Its not a contradiction if you read the entire sentence. Youre taking bits and fragments from what I posted out of context. Please drink some coffee, wake up and re-read the post in its entirety.

I re-read it.  It does appear to say that they are a waste of time and not a waste of time. Not sure I totally understand. But either way, you say "if youre like me".  But very few are like you.  All state QB combined with college pitcher.

Even for pretty athletic people, this is not the norm.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Micah

Unless you happen to be blessed with natural athletic ability and already know the fundamentals, mechanics and physics of the game lessons are a waste of time. I was an all state QB in high school and pitched in college so when I started playing golf long ago at the age of 16 it came easy for me than others. Not saying lessons are a total waste of time and money but if youre like me then self taught and becoming a "feel" golfer is the way to go.

So your saying, unless your athletic, and already know the fundamentals, mechanics and physics of the game, then lessons are a waste of time. Basically your saying that ever amateur who is just starting out, who isn't athletic, lessons are a waste of time.

Then your saying lessons are not a total waste of time, yet you don't specify for who. So generally your saying lessons are not a waste of time. So that covers the above statement as well, cause you made it a general statement for all the 2nd time you mentioned waste of time.

Tell me how that's not contradictory?

I will say your completely wrong on the first statement. How do you think people learn the fundamentals, mechanics, and physics of the golf game, if not by someone teaching them? That in its self is a lesson in golf.

[Micah]

You know what I meant. People that are blessed with God given physical attributes can be self taught and in my case among many others are self taught. Now you pick up pointers now and then like for chipping stances and what not but you cant teach athleticism.......its God given.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Micah

Unless you happen to be blessed with natural athletic ability and already know the fundamentals, mechanics and physics of the game lessons are a waste of time. I was an all state QB in high school and pitched in college so when I started playing golf long ago at the age of 16 it came easy for me than others. Not saying lessons are a total waste of time and money but if youre like me then self taught and becoming a "feel" golfer is the way to go.

I would think that when you were learning the games of baseball and football that there was plenty of fundamentals that you learned  early on in order to better utilyze your natural abilities. I would think that golf requires the same thing. There are fundamentals like the grip and the stance that are not necessarily intuitive. In fact, those are things (grip and stance) that probalby need a regular tuneup over time, as you can get into bad habits.

[Micah]

Then again most quarterbacks and pitchers such as myself all have a really nice golf game and know how to put spin when the ball lands on the dance floor. Im not trying to brag but it is what it is.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Micah

Then again most quarterbacks and pitchers such as myself all have a really nice golf game and know how to put spin when the ball lands on the dance floor. Im not trying to brag but it is what it is.

And a little instruction would most probably help you have the opportunity to make those balls dance on the green a little more often and get that index below 9.4.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Micah

Then again most quarterbacks and pitchers such as myself all have a really nice golf game and know how to put spin when the ball lands on the dance floor. Im not trying to brag but it is what it is.

lol

Couldn't be further from the truth. Not saying "some" don't, but most? Nope. One of the worst golfers I play with was an ALL-STAR high school athlete. Same with my buddy Tim, who had an almost 90 mph fastball and couldn't break 100 on the golf course for the longest time.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Micah

You know what I meant. People that are blessed with God given physical attributes can be self taught and in my case among many others are self taught. Now you pick up pointers now and then like for chipping stances and what not but you cant teach athleticism.......its God given.

Actually you can teach athleticism. You can train people to become faster, stronger, and more athletic. You can train them to hardness more hand eye coordination. You can work on people with Yoga, and balance to become more gifted in moving laterally, and vertically. So yes you can train athleticism. Look at Oregon Football program, they had a board that flashes lights. You stand there and have to tap the lights. How ever many you get in a time frame shows your reaction time. You can train this. Ohio State has this board now, and the team competes on it. The Safety for OSU had the worst time. That's bad for a safety, he needs to be able to react and use his eyes better. He's trained and now his numbers are much better, and up with the rest of the defensive backs.

So, what do we attribute to athleticism? Speed, power, agility, hand eye coordination, reflex, its all trainable. Are some more advanced than other's, yea, some are ahead of the game. Some have genetic differences. But let me ask this. When did you start playing sports? were you thrown into it earlier in your life, maybe played little league baseball, football? if so, you trained them over time. You trained them through the time in your life were your brain is like a sponge waiting for information. Most athletes are athletes because they trained to be an athlete and from a young age. Most people think athleticism is god given, but its developed by kids being kids, playing outside, running around. Best basketball players, probably been shooting hoops since they could shoot a basketball. You can't teach height, that's given. Throwing a football, probably developed by playing catch with the brothers or family.

But still, everyone can use instruction. If not, then why do football program have coaches? Why did you have a pitching coach in college, or a hitting coach?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Actually you can teach athleticism.

I agree with everything you said.

Except this sentence. So, so, so not true. You can improve athleticism, but you absolutely cannot teach it. If you're not athletic, you never will be. You can become a better athlete, but you can't become athletic if you're not. If that makes any sense.

You ever see the guys playing pickup basketball who have good fundamentals, but can't jump, run well, or make any moves to get around people? Those are people who practiced enough to get decent at a sport, but they're not athletic people.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I agree with everything you said.

Except this sentence. So, so, so not true. You can improve athleticism, but you absolutely cannot teach it. If you're not athletic, you never will be. You can become a better athlete, but you can't become athletic if you're not. If that makes any sense.

You ever see the guys playing pickup basketball who have good fundamentals, but can't jump, run well, or make any moves to get around people? Those are people who practiced enough to get decent at a sport, but they're not athletic people.

I think he meant to say "train."  Nobody can be taught to be more athletic than they are, but the athleticism that they already have can be brought out by good training (or teaching.)  Nobody's potential can be altered, but better teaching can get people closer to it. ;)

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I think he meant to say "train."  Nobody can be taught to be more athletic than they are, but the athleticism that they already have can be brought out by good training (or teaching.)  Nobody's potential can be altered, but better teaching can get people closer to it. ;)

Gotcha. Yeah, that's why I agreed with the rest of his post. Think Adrian Peterson played like that the first time he touched a ball?

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by saevel25

That equation is nice, its simplified, but i have learned that its not that accurate, since its probably has an error or 2-3 strokes per 9, just because were talking about golf. GIR is not the end all to be all. I've played one nine better hitting 2 greens than i have hitting 7 greens. Its called short game went crazy hot.

But when it comes to golf, its proximity, its all about percentages, you got some outliers, like chipping in. But when it comes down to it, your best chance of scoring is putting the ball closer to the hole. What's easier 10' putt or 40' putt. I've seen people 3 putt from 40' before. I've seen people 3 putt from 10 feet before, but its a lot less likely.

to me the equation assumes to much.

Like we said, the best say to lower the score is Knowledge, how to implement that knowledge, and repetitions. Its basically how you learn everything in life. How fast and how well you do it, is based on the quality of all three aspects. Hence Erik's threads on Slow methodical practicing, exagerating the movements, also his posts on how much time to spend on each part of the game. Its all there for people, just have to make a plan and do it. There's hardly an easy fix for anything, and search for it is an act in futility.

You are right in that GIR is not everything, however, most people that have goals of getting to single digit handicaps GIR is very important.  This is usually because most people that are 15 hc and higher are not hitting 7 or 8 GIR consistently every round.  If you can hit 7+ GIR consistently then you will be right around if not under 10 hc.  There are always exceptions, like people that are poor putters.

The formula is just a rule of thumb and what it showed me was that if I wanted to get to single digits then I had to get more GIR.  Last weekend I shot 79 but had 12 GIR as the greens were aerated and made putting very difficult.  If it was normal conditions and I hit 12 GIR then I should be a few strokes better than 79.  In the big picture though I believe that for most people improving GIR will bring them closer to single digits.  I don't have the data but I'm willing to bet that the correlation between GIR and handicap/score is very high but starts getting less important after you get to high to mid single digits where short game has a much greater impact.  Thus GIR for a scratch golfer does not have as strong of a correlation to score as it would for someone that has a 15 handicap and is trying to get down to single digits.