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Why Do So Many Instructors/Announcers Insist Golfers Push Off Their Trail Leg?


Golfer20

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4 minutes ago, dufferifick said:

how are you gonna see someone pushing off at the initialization of the transition???

I don't think you know what you're arguing at this point. Or at least… I don't.

I understand physics, GRF, etc. Probably better than you do, but I'm only saying "probably" there.

So, if not for anyone else's sake but mine… if you want to continue to post here, please state in a simple sentence or two what your contention is as it relates to the topic.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

I don't think you know what you're arguing at this point. Or at least… I don't.

I understand physics, GRF, etc. Probably better than you do, but I'm only saying "probably" there.

So, if not for anyone else's sake but mine… if you want to continue to post here, please state in a simple sentence or two what your contention is as it relates to the topic.

I am saying that the trail foot, at the initialization of the downswing, Transition, exerts force on the Earth thereby creating a QUASI push off. I don't think it's actually a push off tho, as I have said.  It's just a back stop for the torque of the pelvis to brace against.

If your trail foot is gimpy, IT MIGHT affect your swing, as the announcers were alluding to. I don't think they meant he pushed off ALL THE WAY THRU THE DOWNSWING....but the may have and if so they are wrong on that IMO

I THINK THEY USED THE WRONG TERMINOLOGY ALSO, BUT  its a throwback to the old terminology.

I have never stated that I thought golfers pushed off. Other people here continue to put those words in my mouth.

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1 minute ago, dufferifick said:

I am saying that the trail foot, at the initialization of the downswing, Transition, exerts force on the Earth thereby creating a QUASI push off.

Okay. That's pretty clear.

It doesn't, really.

1 minute ago, dufferifick said:

I don't think it's actually a push off tho, as I have said.  It's just a back stop for the torque of the pelvis to brace against.

This is where you get into the weeds a bit with words like "torque of the pelvis." The pelvis has to act against something. Golfers rotate back, and often shift back, but when they SLOW those motions down, they're acting in the other direction. Rory slows his shift before the club gets outside of his trail foot during the takeaway. He slows his torque around halfway back. Well before the transition.

1 minute ago, dufferifick said:

I THINK THEY USED THE WRONG TERMINOLOGY ALSO, BUT  its a throwback to the old terminology.

Watch the all caps, please.

Your posts have not been terribly clear, so you should excuse others for not entirely understanding where you stand.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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23 minutes ago, iacas said:

Okay. That's pretty clear.

It doesn't, really.

This is where you get into the weeds a bit with words like "torque of the pelvis." The pelvis has to act against something. Golfers rotate back, and often shift back, but when they SLOW those motions down, they're acting in the other direction. Rory slows his shift before the club gets outside of his trail foot during the takeaway. He slows his torque around halfway back. Well before the transition.

Watch the all caps, please.

Your posts have not been terribly clear, so you should excuse others for not entirely understanding where you stand.

you seem to agree  the the pelvis has to act against something.

I said quasi.

"This is where you get into the weeds a bit with words like "torque of the pelvis."

if the pelvis rotates, it creates torque

"Rory slows his shift before the club gets outside of his trail foot during the takeaway. He slows his torque around halfway back. Well before the transition."

the torque of the hips at transition rotation towards the downswing, not during back swing. During backswing he loads the trail foot getting ready for transition.

sorry, using caps for emphasis.

got no animosity towards anyone, just really don't know why anyone would think I am a "push off" proponent.

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7 minutes ago, dufferifick said:

you seem to agree  the the pelvis has to act against something.

Did you catch "when"?

And, the pelvis can act agains the torso. It exists and has mass and inertia. It doesn't act only against the ground. In fact, it never acts against the ground… because it's not touching the ground.

7 minutes ago, dufferifick said:

"This is where you get into the weeds a bit with words like "torque of the pelvis."

if the pelvis rotates, it creates torque

That's not true on a few fronts. It could be acted upon by something else, and the pelvis is just a few bones: bones don't really "do" much of anything. 😉

7 minutes ago, dufferifick said:

the torque of the hips at transition rotation towards the downswing, not during back swing. During backswing he loads the trail foot getting ready for transition.

During which he promptly unloads the trail foot.

I'm satisfied here. Take care.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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@dufferifick-You seem out of your depths here.

14 minutes ago, dufferifick said:

got no animosity towards anyone, just really don't know why anyone would think I am a "push off" proponent.

Maybe cuz you are doing a lot of arguing here and even a little YELLING?

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

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I got the chance to go to Golf Evolution and work with @iacasyesterday and a lot of what we worked on fits in this topic so I thought I would share. For a while I have been working on what GEARS calls the pelvic trace. Before I started working on GEARS my trace would work out towards the ball which causes me to become steep and often stall through impact. The first 2 photos are from my first session on GEARS and the last 2 are from yesterday. image.png

Here I am at about 4.5 and you can see that my hips are very level. I am not falling into my lead side. I am kind of shoving or pushing off towards the target. Not only am I moving closer to the ball but I am not using the ground. 

85CD827B-B961-41E4-9AA5-E2F0FEA86AC4.png

This is that same swing at impact where I am stalling and cutting across it. 

37FBAAC6-879F-429F-AEED-3C9D888B09DA.png

This is a swing from yesterday where I have made a better into my trail side which allowed me to “fall” or load into the ground as I moved into my lead side. Hopefully you can see that my hips are at an angle. If I had pushed off with my right foot my hips would be level like they were last year. 

67CF89BF-EF4F-4180-AB59-C6910E0ABB54.png

This is the same swing from yesterday at impact. Here I have shifted the path to the inside, created more speed and had more shaft lean then I ever had before. 

I don’t know for sure that I was pushing off the trail leg in the past but I can say I did not feel like I was in the improved swings yesterday. 

 

 

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Brandon Fox

Rochester, NY

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I posted in the other "push off" topic, too.

Right around 3:00 "It's a fall rather than a push with the trail foot."

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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On 2/24/2023 at 12:51 PM, dufferifick said:

I am saying that the trail foot, at the initialization of the downswing, Transition, exerts force on the Earth thereby creating a QUASI push off.

It's more of a roll-off. No real pressure. 

Vishal S.

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11 hours ago, GolfLug said:

It's more of a roll-off. No real pressure. 

In a proper golf swing. I can see a hacker swing loading up like a baseball swing.

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Scott

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14 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

In a proper golf swing. I can see a hacker swing loading up like a baseball swing.

That's true. To be fair to hacks there are instructors out there who have fed feels to golfers for generations. IMO this is one of them.

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Vishal S.

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