Driver Fitting - No Help

[boil3rmak3r]

15 minutes ago, klineka said:

The Stack system or SuperSpeed golf would be good places to start. I highly recommend The Stack

Thanks.  I’ll look into that.

[colin007]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Here's a fun experiment for you all:

1. Hit your driver 15 times on a good launch monitor. 
2. Put shots 1, 4, 7, 10, and 13 in a group. Call it "Driver A", put shots 2, 5, 8, 11, and 14 in a group. Call it "Driver B", put shots 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15 in another group. Call it "Driver C"
3. Look at the results. I 100% guarantee you that one of the drivers will totally outperform the other two. I don't know which one it will be, either Driver A, Driver B, or Driver C, but one of them will be a stand out in terms of either accuracy or distance. 

I'm not following this at all. How is a random grouping of one player's results going to stand out that markedly?

[saevel25]

The major areas driver tech has improved. 

1. Off center hits while maintaining near limits of ball speed on centered hits. 

2. Optimizing ball spin and launch. The biggest being lowering spin substantially for higher swing speeds. 

3. Adjustability to fine tune ball flight

4. Golf shaft consistency and variety

The gains are marginal if you compare drivers that are 3-5 years old. 

Basically, there should be a driver out there that fits you, it just takes time to figure out what bin you are in. Then you can take notes and keep future fittings simple. A fitting where you go through a lot of trial and error is good to do. With my woods, I like golf shafts that are similar to the Tensei Blue from MCA. With my irons, I really like the KBS Tour (hard stepped) or C-Taper (soft stepped), as an option. 

 

 

[mdl]

I think in general spending money or even time on promotional or free single brand fittings is a waste. I got fit for new irons this spring. I hit 6-7 shafts and then the top three shafts with 5-6 different club heads. The variance across brands and shafts was shockingly large in many cases. A one brand fitting with their OEM shafts would've left me with no understanding of the range of fits I could get. Granted, like you I came in with not terrible numbers, so the biggest differences were in the negative direction from my previous irons. But I did in the end get a slight improvement in average numbers and a not enormous but noticeable both on trackman and the course improvement in distance dispersion.

How old is your driver? I switched from an R7 Quad to a 2015 Nike I got at the going out of business sale on campus (I work at Nike, obviously without a fitting beyond choosing the XS shaft given my swing speed) and gained 10-15 yards. Then I finally got fit for a new driver a year ago and gained another 10-15 yards and better dispersion (ended up with a Callaway Epic Speed). That being said, if what you've got is a high quality driver that fits you well from 10 years ago then yeah you might not be able to find something better. But I don't think a PXG only fitting tells you that. And if your current driver is in the 12+ or 15+ year old range, I'd be really surprised if you can't find some extra average distance.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, colin007 said:

I'm not following this at all. How is a random grouping of one player's results going to stand out that markedly?

Hmmm... maybe I didn't explain it well enough. 

Let's say use my Shot Scope data for an example. According to Shotscope my mean average driver distance is 235 yards. My mode average is 269. My longest is 317. My shortest that didn't hit a tree is 205. Which gives me a range from longest to shortest of 112 yards. 

So, if I hit 15 shots with my driver there are going to be a bunch of them between 235 and 269. There will be one or two out near 300 and one or two down near 205. So any which way I group those shots together, one of the groups is likely to have one or more possibly two of the big bombs. One of the groups is likely to have one or two of the duds. AND it's not likely that all the duds and all the bombs will be in the same group and balance themselves out. 

So, with that information if I go hit 3 different drivers (which are all the same, but perhaps one is green, one is blue and one is black.) One of the groups, let's say the green one, is likely to get a couple of duds in it. Another group, lets say the black might have a couple of bombs in it. It doesn't matter which one it is. I only hit one or two huge bombs per 15 or so shots, so certainly at least one group will not have a bomb in it. Plus, I only hit one or two real duds per 15 shots, so at least one group is likely to have a dud in it. It's also not likely to be the same group. 

Therefore, one group of shots will get drug down by one (or possibly 2) of the duds. Another group will get boasted by one (or possibly 2) of the bombs. Almost without fail there will be one group of shots which averages much higher than the other two groups, and one group which averages much lower than the other two groups. They will fall into 3 categories. Longest, average, and shortest. Even though, I'm hitting the exact same driver. It will appear as though I hit one driver better than the other two, and one driver worse than the other two. 

Try it. Hit 15 shots with your driver and group them. Your averages for each group will be different. One will be the longest group, one will be the shortest group and there will be a group in the middle. 

 

So, (If you are still with me) why does that matter? Because that's exactly what you are doing when you test a new driver. You bring your driver to the shop and put it up against 2 other (sometimes even more) drivers. I have 105 yards of dispersion between my shortest and my longest drives. (Your dispersion maybe smaller, but I'll bet its at least 50 yards.) If you just happen to hit one or two of your bombs with a driver you are testing, that driver's average will get boosted big time. If you just happen to hit a couple of your duds with a driver you are testing, it will look worse by comparison. 

 

What I'm getting at is the only people who are really consistent at golf are people who are really good, or people who are really bad. And, if they are really bad it doesn't matter which driver they choose. 

 

BTW - I'm not saying you shouldn't get custom fit. You should. But 2 caveats. One, you should see a good custom fitter. Ideally one who's also a swing coach. He/she can help you wade through all the BS. Two, Ideally you should try a club on multiple occasions in order to make sure your results are repeatable. 

 

Finally, if you just want a new driver, get a new driver. Don't even bring your current gamer to the fitting. I'll admit it. I like shiny things. 

 

Lastly (really, I mean it this time). For most of us. Certainly for me, my driving has improved infinitely more by getting good quality instruction, than it ever has by the one or two yards I might squeeze out of upgrading my driver. 

[colin007]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Hmmm... maybe I didn't explain it well enough. 

Let's say use my Shot Scope data for an example. According to Shotscope my mean average driver distance is 235 yards. My mode average is 269. My longest is 317. My shortest that didn't hit a tree is 205. Which gives me a range from longest to shortest of 112 yards. 

So, if I hit 15 shots with my driver there are going to be a bunch of them between 235 and 269. There will be one or two out near 300 and one or two down near 205. So any which way I group those shots together, one of the groups is likely to have one or more possibly two of the big bombs. One of the groups is likely to have one or two of the duds. AND it's not likely that all the duds and all the bombs will be in the same group and balance themselves out. 

So, with that information if I go hit 3 different drivers (which are all the same, but perhaps one is green, one is blue and one is black.) One of the groups, let's say the green one, is likely to get a couple of duds in it. Another group, lets say the black might have a couple of bombs in it. It doesn't matter which one it is. I only hit one or two huge bombs per 15 or so shots, so certainly at least one group will not have a bomb in it. Plus, I only hit one or two real duds per 15 shots, so at least one group is likely to have a dud in it. It's also not likely to be the same group. 

Therefore, one group of shots will get drug down by one (or possibly 2) of the duds. Another group will get boasted by one (or possibly 2) of the bombs. Almost without fail there will be one group of shots which averages much higher than the other two groups, and one group which averages much lower than the other two groups. They will fall into 3 categories. Longest, average, and shortest. Even though, I'm hitting the exact same driver. It will appear as though I hit one driver better than the other two, and one driver worse than the other two. 

Try it. Hit 15 shots with your driver and group them. Your averages for each group will be different. One will be the longest group, one will be the shortest group and there will be a group in the middle. 

 

So, (If you are still with me) why does that matter? Because that's exactly what you are doing when you test a new driver. You bring your driver to the shop and put it up against 2 other (sometimes even more) drivers. I have 105 yards of dispersion between my shortest and my longest drives. (Your dispersion maybe smaller, but I'll bet its at least 50 yards.) If you just happen to hit one or two of your bombs with a driver you are testing, that driver's average will get boosted big time. If you just happen to hit a couple of your duds with a driver you are testing, it will look worse by comparison. 

 

What I'm getting at is the only people who are really consistent at golf are people who are really good, or people who are really bad. And, if they are really bad it doesn't matter which driver they choose. 

 

BTW - I'm not saying you shouldn't get custom fit. You should. But 2 caveats. One, you should see a good custom fitter. Ideally one who's also a swing coach. He/she can help you wade through all the BS. Two, Ideally you should try a club on multiple occasions in order to make sure your results are repeatable. 

 

Finally, if you just want a new driver, get a new driver. Don't even bring your current gamer to the fitting. I'll admit it. I like shiny things. 

 

Lastly (really, I mean it this time). For most of us. Certainly for me, my driving has improved infinitely more by getting good quality instruction, than it ever has by the one or two yards I might squeeze out of upgrading my driver. 

Okay, I'm sort of following you. But isn't your true range less than 112 yd? I say this because I would imagine that those bombs that go out to 317 are probably more due to fairway conditions than carry, correct? If you were to have a way of comparing carry versus carry, I would imagine that the range is significantly smaller. Anyways, I kind of see your point, especially the point where a crappy golfer (like me) is not going to improve (all) that much with a new driver.

Edited June 16, 2023 by colin007

[ChetlovesMer]

3 hours ago, colin007 said:

Okay, I'm sort of following you. But isn't your true range less than 112 yd? I say this because I would imagine that those bombs that go out to 317 are probably more due to fairway conditions than carry, correct? If you were to have a way of comparing carry versus carry, I would imagine that the range is significantly smaller. Anyways, I kind of see your point, especially the point where a crappy golfer (like me) is not going to improve (all) that much with a new driver.

You are right of course. The range on a launch monitor will be fewer than 112 yards. There are no wind conditions, no soggy fairways etc... 

There will still be a large range, however, There will still be a couple of bombs and a couple of duds. 
But I think you get the idea now.

Cheers.