"The Putting Bible" by Dave Pelz

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

So...ANYBODY...

Back problems!?  And not just some anecdotal "Oh my father's brother's cousin's league manager's friend's nephew's former roommate had back problems after putting with the Pelz method" either.  I want hard facts.

Ask Ray Floyd

One reason he uses/used a 36 inch putter.

I guess one can throw common sense out the window ... think about it. When you get older, most people don't want their back bending like that ... but I'll let you young pups learn your lessons the hard way...

More anecdotal evidence.  One could also blame it on his golf swing, lifting a bag of potatoes out of his trunk, wearing the wrong size shoes, sneezing.....

Got any facts?

[Mr. Desmond]

More anecdotal evidence.  One could also blame it on his golf swing, lifting a bag of potatoes out of his trunk, wearing the wrong size shoes, sneezing..... Got any facts?

Hey, if you want to try, try it. But how many Guys on the PGA Tour look like Michelle Wie bending over with their back horizontal? Or how many guys try to use it? Of course, that doesn't matter. If you think it will work for you, do it. If this topic interest you so much and you want scientific evidence, then there's something called Google. Try it. It's your friend.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by minitour

More anecdotal evidence.  One could also blame it on his golf swing, lifting a bag of potatoes out of his trunk, wearing the wrong size shoes, sneezing.....

Got any facts?

Look, you are not a professor and we are not your students.

You got any manners?

Tired of guys too effin' lazy to research their own questions before they ask it on a forum, and then start to berate others for attempting to assist them.

My suggestion?  Bend over ... and try it yourself.

Here's a fact for you re SBST.

I tried it years ago as a healthy 40 something male with no physical limitations and in above average physical condition -- my back hurt after practicing SBST on the range for several months. And no, I did not bend horizontal to the ground. And when you don't, you will have an arc if the putt is sufficiently long.

As to Floyd, he's used a slightly longer putter for years now.

You see a lot of guys using an upright style - see Tiger and a slew of others on Tour.

[Ernest Jones]

I hear Shakespear was a huge proponent of SBST.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

I hear Shakespear was a huge proponent of SBST.

Fact or anecdotal?

Or was it SISO?

Can have any anecdotes running freely around here...

[minitour]

If this topic interest you so much and you want scientific evidence, then there's something called Google. Try it. It's your friend.

I'm not making the claim. You are. The onus is on you to prove it true, not me to prove it false.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by minitour

I'm not making the claim. You are. The onus is on you to prove it true, not me to prove it false.

Okay, that's enough. It's not on topic anyway.

[boil3rmak3r]

I'm curious what others think about one of the drills in the book.  It's the one where you take your putting stance inside a door frame.  You place an alignment rod across your shoulders and make the rod only an inch or so away from the wall on either side of the door frame.  From that position, make a shoulder turn as if you were putting.

I don't care if sbst is truly possible or not, but I am curious if naysayers feel the above drill is beneficial in any way. Also, on shorter putts (say, inside 10 feet), do most of you try to make a stroke that would at least look sbst to the naked eye? Again, I'm not asking these questions in a controversial way. I'm just trying to learn and improve...

[Rennie]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I don't care if sbst is truly possible or not, but I am curious if naysayers feel the above drill is beneficial in any way.

Also, on shorter putts (say, inside 10 feet), do most of you try to make a stroke that would at least look sbst to the naked eye?

Again, I'm not asking these questions in a controversial way. I'm just trying to learn and improve...

At the risk of stating the obvious, I use a pendulum swing trying to rock the putter head the same distance in the back swing as the forward swing with the shoulders. Keeping my hands and arms soft but steady, the club face opens and closes with the swing. A short swing opens and closes less so it looks more sbst. I do not know about the drill.

[BostonBrew]

My copy arrived today. Just picked it up on Amazon used for $9. Looking forward to diving into it.

[BostonBrew]

I'm about 25% through the book. I'm enjoying it. Not sure I agree with his pils stroke over the "screen door." The data he's collected and shares in the book is very interesting I think. I especially enjoyed the two page display showing the dispersion of contacts on the putter face between the different handicaps.

I of course grabbed my putter and started making some practice strokes on the carpet. I'm a shoulder putter and by that I mean I hold on to the putter with my hands and arms, but I feel like I rock my shoulders to make my stroke. I try to keep my putterhead square for as long as possible. But as others have mentioned, the further I take it back, the more it needs to arc. I  like his mantra of "simpler is better" but I think the pils stroke is over-reaching. Even when I try to keep it SBST, I don't think I actually am.

I'll finish reading the book because I always enjoy learning more about the game and others' take on its different aspects.

Also, when he put Tiger Woods on the "great ballstrikers" list and not on the "great putters" list and claimed one couldn't be on both, I just kind of laughed to myself.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I don't care if sbst is truly possible or not, but I am curious if naysayers feel the above drill is beneficial in any way.

Also, on shorter putts (say, inside 10 feet), do most of you try to make a stroke that would at least look sbst to the naked eye?

Again, I'm not asking these questions in a controversial way. I'm just trying to learn and improve...

Depends on what you're trying to do ... if you rock the shoulders, my guess is the drill is to make certain you don't rock inside too much

[K-rad]

I've read both of his books  and all I can say is to much information.

[Mr. Desmond]

Pelz wrote the book almost 20 years ago ... technology changes how we think about our methods, especially as to technique and green reading. I've kept the part about looking beyond the target on an uphill putt and looking before the hole on a downhill putt.

[RGoosen]

I know the last post is two years ago, but others should be warned prior to reading this book. * This book is extremely technical. There are excellent sections on reading greens and thoughts on the type of putter to use. However, I tried using techniques from this book and became so technical with my putting afterwards that I developed the yips. I converted to the claw grip and now Matt Kuchar method that finally allowed me to play again. IMO...Read this book only for reading greens and choosing a putter. Then read Dave Stockton ' s book for putting technique. btw...Pelz Short Game Bible is a much better book. He has some good sections on wedge play in that book.

[ZappyAd]

I know the last post is two years ago, but others should be warned prior to reading this book.

* This book is extremely technical. There are excellent sections on reading greens and thoughts on the type of putter to use.

However, I tried using techniques from this book and became so technical with my putting afterwards that I developed the yips. I converted to the claw grip and now Matt Kuchar method that finally allowed me to play again.

IMO...Read this book only for reading greens and choosing a putter. Then read Dave Stockton ' s book for putting technique.

btw...Pelz Short Game Bible is a much better book. He has some good sections on wedge play in that book.

I was going to buy this book last week but read a lot of reviews about how it was very technical so instead I got 'One Putt' by Ken Brown.  That book is the complete opposite and very non-technical (some people would say not enough content maybe) but I actually really enjoyed reading it and I buy into a more simple 'get the ball in the hole' approach.

[iacas]

IMO...Read this book only for reading greens and choosing a putter. Then read Dave Stockton ' s book for putting technique.

I don't recommend it, personally, for either of those things.

• Get fitted for your putter. Even if it's not an Edel, get fitted. Don't just "choose" a putter based on what you read in a book. The theories about "mallets" suiting one kind of stroke or whatever are hogwash.
• Go to an AimPoint class for green reading. Easier, more accurate, faster.

[Big Lex]

Something overlooked in the debates about arc v. SBST is that Pelz agrees that as the stroke gets longer, it is necessary to have some arc in the stroke or it becomes to difficult bio mechanically. Pelz also does not say you can't putt very well with an arc stroke. He simply says that it is an advantage to have a SBST putter path, and that it is achievable without too much difficulty. Even if someone believes ardently in the arc stroke, it is still to that person's advantage to make the radius of the arc as large as possible, because it minimizes directional errors. But Pelz is under no delusions about what makes great putters: It isn't path. It is face angle at impact, center face contact, and speed. Pelz's books state in very specific, quantitative ways why these things are true. In some cases the attacks on Pelz and SBST putting just miss the mark. He merely asserts that this is the ideal way, regarding path. It isn't an imperative or the only way or is it the most important or even third most important thing! Having said that..... [quote name="iacas" url="/t/15731/the-putting-bible-by-dave-pelz/54#post_850403"] If your back is horizontal, specifically the part between your shoulder blades, you can swing a putter SBST without manipulation. In virtually every other situation it requires manipulation. [/quote] Arguing this is like a political or religious argument....nobody moves. But I think in a golf forum such as this, if someone is going to make a statement like iacas' above, form a position of authority, it's important to dispute it if one thinks it's incorrect. Pelz has shown with exhaustive photos and demonstrations that iacas's statement is false. It is possible to execute a SBST stroke for a stroke length that accommodates putts of up to 20-25' without any compensatory movements. If the hands hang directly below the shoulder joint (on a plumb line directly below), and the arms are swung in a pendulum motion from the shoulder socket, the face will stay precisely square throughout the stroke, if it was square to start. There is no need to do anything to hold it square. It's in his book. The explanation is there, with pictures, along with answers to all the usual arguments against him.