20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[SHADOWFOX]

I am a high handicapper or let me rephrase that I am new to the game of golf and I don't know what my handicap is and I think 36 was the highest number. The only time I average 300+ yards on a round of golf was when playing Tiger Woods PGA Tour '09 on my Wii.

[jonanthans]

I guess I am in the minority, because I know several guys who can, on ocassion, bomb it straight down the fairway over 300, and I have a Bushnell 1500 Pinseeker that I verified it with. No, not a single one of them can even come close to AVERAGEING that. I have hit a few myself 300 yards, I have no idea what my swing speed is, ball rotation measurements, what I was doing with my tongue at the time, etc etc. I usually hit my drives 260. Sometimes you just absolutely pure one, and it just goes. To hear a lot of you guys talk, it's "impossible". Well, I've got a bet for you. Bring your money and i'll trot out one of my college baseball teammmates who will hit 1 of 5 over 300, and he is a +20 handicap at best.

I'm off the rest of the week, let's set it up!

[Jay-Bird]

After going birdie, par, bogie, bogie, bogie, bogie and realizing that I had completely p*ssed away my opening birdie, I focused my anger into a red-a*s swing that sent my tee shot soaring to a final resting place some 315 yards from the tee. I verified my result by gps, by sprinkler head (at tee box and in fairway), and by walking only 32 steps to the middle of the green on a hole that is a straight 345 yard par 4.

I'm not a 20 handicapper, but think with today's shaft/head combos, it's not impossible.

[jonanthans]

Come out to the range when the local high school golf team is there, and those 16 year old kids are bombing it 30 yards past you on the range, right down the gut...Now THAT hurts your felings, lol!

[LongballGer]

It is definitely possible.

When I was a 20 handicap I averaged 350yards of the tee then I would skull a wedge and three or four putt and end up with a double bogey.

Now before anyone thinks this is bogus, I used to be a long drive guy and I'm blessed with a very fast swing speed.

And yes, a lot of people overestimate their drives by a good 30+ yards.

[flopdarock]

all the talk about 'you must have proper' swing mechanics to even get close to 280... ive seen some ugly swings that have gone past mine... but only in driver...

if you go to the range an you watch others... which i do alot cuz i work weekends at my local course... the problem with most amateurs is... the very first club they break out and quite often the only club they realllly work on is driver... and they full swing ever single club...

the guys on the putting surface/bunker/pitching area... are all guys that have a decent understanding of the game...

i come to think that alot of newbies dont even know that the shortgame practice area is "free"... they are stuck to the range for 1-2 hours

[GaijinGolfer]

Im a 20 handicapper and I dont hit the ball anywhere near 300 yards. This past summer I was playing an 8.5* driver with a stiff shaft and a 15* 3-wood with a stiff shaft and I hit them both about 200 yards.
Ive now got a new driver with more loft and more flex in the shaft and I hope to gain carry distance and hopefully more overall distance.
I could hit the ball 300 yards if it was an elevated tee and the fairway was downhill, but there is no way Id hit it anywhere near 300 yards on flat ground.
Honestly, I couldnt care less about hitting it 300 yards off the tee anyways. Id rathar be deadly accurate with my irons and be an absolute shortgame wizard than to be booming 300 yard drives off of the tees.
Drive for show, putt for dough.

[RC]

I've kept quiet on this one, but sure, a 20 can hit it 300, even 350 yards. Given the bad shots, I don't think they average 300, of course. A major league centerfielder who routinely hit 30 to 40 homers a year (not Mickey Mantle) used to show up and play at one of my old clubs, and he could ignite a driver. Problem was he also hit an equal number of absolutely terrible shots. 350 down the middle on a par five then a 200 yard 7 or 8 iron 45 degrees off line into never never land. It was something to see.

Several major league players would come play on off days (or non-pitching days for pitchers) at this club. Some of the best ones I saw were John Smoltz, Glavine, and Mattox, Braves pitchers. John was really quite good -- he might even try the senior (Champions) tour some day (I think.) Guys like that who are great athletes with quick powerful lower bodies can move a golf ball regardless of handicap. And no, they don't all swing like Charles Barkley.

[denver_nuggs_15]

I've kept quiet on this one, but sure, a 20 can hit it 300, even 350 yards. Given the bad shots, I don't think they average 300, of course. A major league centerfielder who routinely hit 30 to 40 homers a year (not Mickey Mantle) used to show up and play at one of my old clubs, and he could ignite a driver. Problem was he also hit an equal number of absolutely terrible shots. 350 down the middle on a par five then a 200 yard 7 or 8 iron 45 degrees off line into never never land. It was something to see.

I heard that Smoltz plays with Tiger and only gets like 2 shots per side. I heard he's a beast at golf.

As for 20 hcps AVERAGING 300...almost impossible. I could understand one or two per round maximum but mistakes happen. They can't do it consistently. Look at the guys on tour. They are ridiculous at golf and most don't average 300 off the tee. For someone with a flawed swing to out hit those guys doesn't make sense in my mind.

[hos327]

I've been quiet on this too, but... Do I think it's the norm - no. Are there guys out there that do - yes. I'm a 9 and hit the ball farther than most everyone I play with. The only guys(1-2) that can outdrive (when in the fairway) me are 15+ handicaps. Singles put a controlled swing on it to keep it in play. The 15+'s go for broke on every drive. If it's in the fairway, they put a real good swing on the ball, and these are the ones that count towards your average anyway. I personally avg 270-280 on my home course (no roll). If I go to a 'premium' course (tightly mowed fairways and conditioned like a tour stop) which I do 5-6 times a year, it blows my mind how much my ball runs out. The last two I played this year I avg'd 310 with a few rolling out past 330. These were proven with GPS. The guys I was with were blown away and I play with them at home quite a bit.
I don't know why people dispute that this can happen, but to each their own I guess.
Keep in mind - drive figures count when in the fairway, a 20+ did everything right when going after one hard and it finds the short grass. I will agree- some of them are dilusional though (esp. in the bar after a scramble)

[picrig]

Drives do not have to be in the fairway to be counted towards your driving average. The PGA tour calculates driving distance by choosing two driving holes per round (one playing into the wind, one downwind) and takes the average of those to drives, regardless of whether the ball is in the middle of the fairway or in the deep rough. So to get a true idea of "average driving distance" in the same sense as PGA pros, 15+ handicappers (like myself) need to average in those 150 yard pop ups, or that high slice that rolled to the edge of a lake.

[hos327]

I stand corrected - thanx.

[picrig]

No problem. I didn't know either until I saw a link from someone here to the PGA's procedure for measuring driving average

[SubPar]

Drives do not have to be in the fairway to be counted towards your driving average. The PGA tour calculates driving distance by choosing two driving holes per round (one playing into the wind, one downwind) and takes the average of those to drives, regardless of whether the ball is in the middle of the fairway or in the deep rough. So to get a true idea of "average driving distance" in the same sense as PGA pros, 15+ handicappers (like myself) need to average in those 150 yard pop ups, or that high slice that rolled to the edge of a lake.

Bubba Watson's average was calculated last year using 190 drives. According to

the stats he played 97 rounds on tour in 2008. The "2 driving holes" method leaves 4 drives unaccounted for. Several players have exactly two drives used for each round, but many others have less than that. Are you sure about missing the fairway, or do they not count it if you don't use a driver? SubPar

[RC]

I certainly agree averaging 300 is extremely unlikely for almost any double digit handicapper, not impossible, but certainly these guys must be a rare case.

John Smoltz IS a beast of a golfer. The guy is big, real big, he has a great swing, and he has fine touch. He can kill it. I don't doubt he could play Tiger with only two a side, but I did not know that little tidbit. I know he played at my old club from time to time and Tiger would be there practicing as well. Looked to me like Smoltz could airmail several of the pros that would practice there. It would be fun to see him as a champions tour guy in a few years, just to see if he could do it.

I went to a game Smoltz pitched and was sitting in the front row box behind home plate right beside the radar gun guy. I could lean over and see every pitch's speed. Smoltz came out throwing his fast ball around 94, and his slider around 88. He pitched into the seventh inning and opened that inning throwing 97 mph fastballs. He was much younger then, but that is a strong guy for sure. On the golf course, he murdered the golf ball with his driver. But I guess he was probably a plus or scratch golfer even then.

[Chas]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still alive and kicking. I haven't visited in weeks .....

So, a week ago I played with a big hitter for the first time (I was a walk-on single). This guy averaged right around 300 when he used the driver, no mistake about it. And when I discretely asked, he said his longest drive was about 370 (downhill, no wind) - and I believed him. He was long with everything, every iron as well I mean, way long. Athletic build, smooth action, good finish, sweet divots (always starting just in front of the ball and a thing of beauty). Nice guy as well dammit - nothing flashy in the least.

Interesingly though he used a 2 or 3 iron off the tee quite a few times on par 4 or 5s- you should have seen how far those suckers went as well, and what trajectory! Reminded me of watching the pros up close from behind on the practice range at Torrey Pines (Buick). I asked him why and he said the driver was just too risky on some holes for him. Good point, the longer you hit, the greater the need for accuracy. He shot about a 6 IIRC - decent short-game player and putter as well.

My point here: It's very, very hard for me to imagine someone hitting driver like this guy and not shooting pretty low, well below me at least. It takes timing and rhythm to do that, not just strength, which has to translate to other aspects of the game.

[Chas]

After going birdie, par, bogie, bogie, bogie, bogie and realizing that I had completely p*ssed away my opening birdie, I focused my anger into a red-a*s swing that sent my tee shot soaring to a final resting place some 315 yards from the tee. .

That is very very funny. I know the feeling; but in my case though it usually leads to a trip to a neighboring fairway after the next drive (to the right).

My last round I gave up hitting driver on all but the most forgiving holes and my game was transformed. 4 pars and a birdie on the back nine with the 3W and I didn't miss a fairway (by much, anyway)).... I've never done that before, not even close. In the future, I'm only grabbing the big stick on the wide open holes - my default club off the tee will be a 3W.

[Fourputt]

Drives do not have to be in the fairway to be counted towards your driving average. The PGA tour calculates driving distance by choosing two driving holes per round (one playing into the wind, one downwind) and takes the average of those to drives, regardless of whether the ball is in the middle of the fairway or in the deep rough. So to get a true idea of "average driving distance" in the same sense as PGA pros, 15+ handicappers (like myself) need to average in those 150 yard pop ups, or that high slice that rolled to the edge of a lake.

IMO, it makes no difference what the pros do or how they count their drives. If a 20 hanidcapper hits it 300+ and 40 yards off line, it goes a long way toward explaining why he's a 20 cap. The pros can count what ever they want... they have the skill to escape most of those places. The high handicapper should only be counting drives in the fairway, because those are those only ones that are meaningful to his game. A 310 yard drive that regularly leads to a double bogey is a wasted swing, and an irrelevant statistic aside from demonstrating what NOT to do.

I'm not a high capper, but I still only count drives in the fairway, fairways hit, and greens in regulation. There is a definite correlation between fairways hit and scoring. If a guy wants to pump up his ego by counting every wild drive he hits, that's fine by me, but his scoring won't improve until he realizes that the 300 yard drives are the problem, not the cure.