20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[Jeremie Boop]

The worst part about this whole fiasco since my post about the drive on Saturday, is that I was doing my best NOT to exaggerate by using the gps coordinates and such to calculate the distances instead of saying "the hole is this long, I was this far from the green so I obviously hit it this far". It sucks that you have to do extra things just to validate your distances instead of relying on the course yardages to be correct. This may very well be the case just for this course and not so much for other courses in the area. I will see about checking a few others and if they are all as unreliable as this course is I'll have to break down and make my own book up with accurate markings. Although, it may not be a horrible idea to do that and maybe see if they would be interested in selling the yardage books to customers.....

[Fourputt]

The worst part about this whole fiasco since my post about the drive on Saturday, is that I was doing my best NOT to exaggerate by using the gps coordinates and such to calculate the distances instead of saying "the hole is this long, I was this far from the green so I obviously hit it this far". It sucks that you have to do extra things just to validate your distances instead of relying on the course yardages to be correct. This may very well be the case just for this course and not so much for other courses in the area. I will see about checking a few others and if they are all as unreliable as this course is I'll have to break down and make my own book up with accurate markings. Although, it may not be a horrible idea to do that and maybe see if they would be interested in selling the yardage books to customers.....

Trying to use course yardages from the posted lengths is never going to give you accurate data except by pure coincidence.  That has been proven over and over.  It's not always a deliberate attempt by the courses to inflate the data, it's just that there are too many variables in the mix.  GPS has given us the tool needed to find out the truth, both about how courses are measured and how far we really hit.  Google Earth is a good back up for that, and I have compared the two resources many times and they usually are very close, much more accurate than just trying to figure it from the card yardages.

[Jeremie Boop]

Trying to use course yardages from the posted lengths is never going to give you accurate data except by pure coincidence.  That has been proven over and over.  It's not always a deliberate attempt by the courses to inflate the data, it's just that there are too many variables in the mix.  GPS has given us the tool needed to find out the truth, both about how courses are measured and how far we really hit.  Google Earth is a good back up for that, and I have compared the two resources many times and they usually are very close, much more accurate than just trying to figure it from the card yardages.

Yes, my point was I DIDN'T use course yardages in this case. I pulled up the hole on google maps, marked the tee spot and end point then plugged in those coordinates on a website to measure the distance between those points. It still came up wrong.

[Slice of Life]

Yes, my point was I DIDN'T use course yardages in this case. I pulled up the hole on google maps, marked the tee spot and end point then plugged in those coordinates on a website to measure the distance between those points. It still came up wrong.

Trying to plug coordinates in the website isn't the best way. Use Google Earth and you should be good.

[Jeremie Boop]

Trying to plug coordinates in the website isn't the best way. Use Google Earth and you should be good.

I realize this now, rofl, the problem was it's the first time I've ever tried doing this. I pulled up google earth but didn't see anything that would allow me to mark or measure just rotate and zoom.

[Slice of Life]

I realize this now, rofl, the problem was it's the first time I've ever tried doing this. I pulled up google earth but didn't see anything that would allow me to mark or measure just rotate and zoom.

Ah, I wonder if you need the Pro version...

If you have any questions about a specific hole on a specific course, just ask and I'll check for you.

[Jeremie Boop]

Ah, I wonder if you need the Pro version...

If you have any questions about a specific hole on a specific course, just ask and I'll check for you.

Appreciate it, I signed up for the free 7 day trial of Pro for now. Going to try and get as much information as possible in that time frame. May even make myself a few yardage books for the courses here and maybe Fox Meadow....

[saevel25]

I realize this now, rofl, the problem was it's the first time I've ever tried doing this. I pulled up google earth but didn't see anything that would allow me to mark or measure just rotate and zoom.

If your using google earth through the internet browser, i don't think you can. If you still have the option for the old style of google maps. You can load some tools from there google map labs. It has a measuring too.

If your able to download google earth, the original program, the measuring tool is the ruler symbol.

For the original google maps style, viewed above. The map labs link is to the right left of the map, when you first load the page. But it gives you that ruler down by the scale bar. That will allow you to measure on google maps.

[RayG]

I realize this now, rofl, the problem was it's the first time I've ever tried doing this. I pulled up google earth but didn't see anything that would allow me to mark or measure just rotate and zoom.

The regular Google Earth v. 7 point something- in the toolbar above the screen there is a "ruler" looking thing. click that and you can measure in many different formats- yards, metres, cubits, etc... it is NOT available in Google Maps.

[bplewis24]

So, for the first time ever in the history of Brandon Lewis, I downloaded Google Earth and used it to look up those two holes I mentioned earlier.  Sure enough, one measured roughly 305 (to the front pin location with the slightly forward tee box) and the other measured 290 to the back of the green from the blue tee box.

The one that measured 290 to the back, was about 275-280 to the middle of the green even though the card on their website currently says 305 to the middle of the green from the blue tees (they also have black tees).  So roughly 25 yards of difference.

Funny thing is I remember the first time I played there, the guys I was playing with talked about how when they were younger they could drive it 300 yards, and they used to drive this green all the time.  Since it says 305 on the scorecard, they think it's 300 yards when they run it up to the front edge, even though that's like 262.  Even from the black tees (tips), it's only 277 to the front edge.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Trying to use course yardages from the posted lengths is never going to give you accurate data except by pure coincidence.  That has been proven over and over.  It's not always a deliberate attempt by the courses to inflate the data, it's just that there are too many variables in the mix.  GPS has given us the tool needed to find out the truth, both about how courses are measured and how far we really hit.  Google Earth is a good back up for that, and I have compared the two resources many times and they usually are very close, much more accurate than just trying to figure it from the card yardages.

Yes, my point was I DIDN'T use course yardages in this case. I pulled up the hole on google maps, marked the tee spot and end point then plugged in those coordinates on a website to measure the distance between those points. It still came up wrong.

Google Maps doesn't have the measuring tool that Google Earth does.  I never use the Maps application, only Earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

I realize this now, rofl, the problem was it's the first time I've ever tried doing this. I pulled up google earth but didn't see anything that would allow me to mark or measure just rotate and zoom.

Ah, I wonder if you need the Pro version...

If you have any questions about a specific hole on a specific course, just ask and I'll check for you.

I don't have the Pro version.  The Yardstick tool is on the standard version too.

[Fourputt]

[Jeremie Boop]

What I'm noticing is that their straight line holes are marked pretty accurately, but anything with even a slight bend is off. So it looks like they do measure them with 2 lines.

[Slice of Life]

What I'm noticing is that their straight line holes are marked pretty accurately, but anything with even a slight bend is off. So it looks like they do measure them with 2 lines.

That's typically how a hole is measured. Par 4s they measure with 2 lines, Par 5s with 3. I'm sure there are exceptions, but from what I've seen, that's the norm.

[Lihu]

So, for the first time ever in the history of Brandon Lewis, I downloaded Google Earth and used it to look up those two holes I mentioned earlier.  Sure enough, one measured roughly 305 (to the front pin location with the slightly forward tee box) and the other measured 290 to the back of the green from the blue tee box.

The one that measured 290 to the back, was about 275-280 to the middle of the green even though the card on their website currently says 305 to the middle of the green from the blue tees (they also have black tees).  So roughly 25 yards of difference.

Funny thing is I remember the first time I played there, the guys I was playing with talked about how when they were younger they could drive it 300 yards, and they used to drive this green all the time.  Since it says 305 on the scorecard, they think it's 300 yards when they run it up to the front edge, even though that's like 262.  Even from the black tees (tips), it's only 277 to the front edge.

It seems like the pointer can be off by a lot, 25 yards in your case. I measured some football fields end to end at 100 yards, so I think the tool is accurate if you zoom in then click the pointer. You might need to drag the pointer around a bit to get the exact location you want. BTW, you could use the standard google maps and select measurement tool from "map labs".

Interesting that the scorecard yardage is off by 42 yards (305 down to 262?).

I guess that only means one thing, it's not that important to drive 300 yards after all

[Fourputt]

What I'm noticing is that their straight line holes are marked pretty accurately, but anything with even a slight bend is off. So it looks like they do measure them with 2 lines.

A properly measured hole is measured from the middle of the tee box, down the center of the fairway to the center of the dogleg, then from that point to the center of the green.  I posted this a couple of times already, but I'll do it again:

The blue line is how the hole is normally played by most people.  Red line is how it played for me on the best drive I ever hit there.  The blue line total matches the card distance perfectly.  The total of the red lines is about 20 yards shorter.

[Slice of Life]

I measured some football fields end to end at 100 yards

Just did the same. 100 yards exactly. Nuts, ain't it?

EDIT: To go even further, I zoomed waaaaaaaaaaay in and measured the distance between yard markers. It shows 1.0 yards. Hard to get more accurate than that...

[bplewis24]

Interesting that the scorecard yardage is off by 42 yards (305 down to 262?).

262 was to the front of the green.  The scorecard would be measuring to the middle, which I had about 275-280-ish (depending on where the blue tees were in the tee box), but the card had at 305.  So I'd say it's off roughly 25 yards.

The reason I think the front of the green is important in this case, is because this green is very tough to carry from the tee box as left is trees/hazard, which forces most people to try and stay on the right side.  The front right of the green is protected by a huge bunker.  Most of the people I see trying to drive the green generally end up in the front right bunker.

The front of the green has a narrow opening, and then it gets wider and wraps around the bunker and opens up to the right, past the bunker.  The pin typically plays in the front or front-middle of the green.  Typically when I see guys reach it (and when I reach it myself), it's by hitting a laser that happens to run up to the narrow entrance at the front of the green.  That part is only 262, and I'm sure there are plenty of folks who have run it up there and claimed they hit it 300.

I remember driving the green a couple years ago with a front pin location and missing a 10 foot eagle putt just barely.  Memory escapes me, but I definitely remember measuring the drive at less than 290 and probably less than 280.  I say that because when I hit 290, a little memory flag goes off in my head.  Those are generally the top 5% of the drives I've ever hit.  Even when I think I put the screws on one and crushed it, I often find it "only" goes 280-289 (assuming neutral environment conditions...I don't count the distances if it's wind-aided or downhill with hard fairways).