Short flop shots are outright sucking!!!!!!!

[Dub]

Two things that absolutely killed me in my round yesterday....easily accounting for 8+ stokes lost were 1) short flop shots and 2) greenside bunker shots.

I'm usually a decent bunker player and I attribute the screw ups to poor set up and trying to use the wrong wedge in a couple of cases. I tried to get cute and cut it out with my low bounce LW vs. a normal sandblast with my high bounce SW. Trying something new, etc. No worries here...experiment failed---go back to normal methods and be done with it.


The shot that continues to erk me are the short flops. I'm fearful of taking too long of a swing and the partial swings are resulting in nasty skulls. Two things that I feel I'm doing are decelerating and not swinging through fully....gotta learn to trust the shot. The next thing that's killing me is not rotating through the shot. I'm stuggling with left knee problems/ healing and that's not something I can practice right now.

The sad thing is when I try to chip using a lofted wedge to cover the same distance but perhaps with more roll....I'm sucking at this, too. My issue here is making contact with the big ball before the little ball. Stupid move that I know better than doing....but yet it occured....twice.

I got so mad at myself yesterday that I simply had to drop the wedge to get it out of my hands before I did something very, very regrettable not to mention embarassing with it. It's good I dropped it and took a couple of deep breaths. Years back I could see myself hurling out into a waste area / water hazard that was behind me on one of these occasions.

What are your preshot thoughts and / or keys for your sucessful flop shots.

I feel like Shaquille O'Neil talking about flopping.....and being a flopper.

[David in FL]

At the risk of sounding like a prick, perhaps you could try not leaving yourself so many short flop shots?

A short flop shot usually means you short-sided yourself. Keep that in mind when you're hitting your approach shots and make sure that you err towards the center of the green rather than hitting at pins that you probably shouldn't be. Even if you miss the green, you'll have much easier up and downs.

Trust me.....this is the voice of experience !

[DavidFehertysBike]

Flop shots are are risky and people try to hit them way too often. My preshot thoughts are unless i have to go over a bunker and a tree at the same time, i dont consider hitting a flop shot. a traditional pitch will work 99% of the time. I use the Stan Utley method of pitching from his book "art of the short game"..look it up or check out the stan utley thread here.

[bsettle]

The main misconception with the flop shot of those who struggle with it is how or when the clubhead passes the hands. Remember you can still hit a succesful short flop shot by doing a few things:

1. Open the club enough that you get the loft you need, but not enough that the leading edge cannot be kept under ball

2. Try and keep your hands in front of the ball (like other short game shots) and use your chest and big muscles to "really" turn through it to generate that spin you need to keep from rolling 10 feet past the hole. This will allow you to make cleaner contact and not skull the ball.

Once you have mastered the timing in certain lies, then you can really throw that head past the hands to generate even more loft and more spin.

[SubPar]

...2. Try and keep your hands in front of the ball (like other short game shots) and use your chest and big muscles to "really" turn through it to generate that spin you need to keep from rolling 10 feet past the hole. This will allow you to make cleaner contact and not skull the ball.

This depends on how high you want the trajectory and how soft you want it to land. A pro got me to actually lean back and away through the shot, rather than the customary down and through body motion, in order to get the ball very high. I think if you watch Phil or Tiger execute one of these SHORT flops you might see they almost shift their weight backwards as the club slides under the ball.

The short ones are tricky because you still have to accelerate through the shot. It takes some work to get the feel for a very short take away while still accelerating through. SubPar

[Grndslmhttr3]

Why do people do flop shots in the first place? I could be right next to the green, 10 yards out or whatever and I rarely have problems chipping the ball on. I've never felt the need to flop.

[flopdarock]

if youre trying to carry over a greenside bunker or youre in a pit with decent rough next to the green... then i can see flopping especially if the pin is close to you... if not... a regular chip or a bump an run is much less risky... flops do look pretty cool tho... i love hitting them... but i usually decide on whatever is gonna get me in the hole as easy as possible

[Grndslmhttr3]

if youre trying to carry over a greenside bunker or youre in a pit with decent rough next to the green... then i can see flopping especially if the pin is close to you... if not... a regular chip or a bump an run is much less risky... flops do look pretty cool tho... i love hitting them... but i usually decide on whatever is gonna get me in the hole as easy as possible

Hell I shoulda just bought a 64* wedge at the golf show then.

[Dub]

I should've been more specific on what put me there. Three cases I needed to carry a bunker to a tight pin. The first case resulted from doing exactly what David said and "short-sided" myself and didn't account enough for the elevated green...two of the other three had enough club but drew into a bad wind and landed in undesirable spots. The third was an approach that was long and in trouble...had to crest the rear hump behind the green and wanted to stop the ball on a steeply sloping green.

I hope to get to play in the morning. I warm up with a few of these shots and work on letting the hands lead the head.

I've got the Utley Short Game book but haven't tried it since the knee issues. I'll give it some time this evening and early in the morning before heading out.

[TMO]

The main misconception with the flop shot of those who struggle with it is how or when the clubhead passes the hands. Remember you can still hit a succesful short flop shot by doing a few things:

Totally agree. I am a huge fan of flob shots and will be the first one to say that I use it at totally inappropriate times just because I practiced using them so much when I first started playing golf. If I were going to add anything to what was said above is that your stance width can help with this a lot. I still play the ball off of my leading foot but narrower stance = more spin and less height while wider stance = almost no spin but much more height.

As far as bunker shots go, I would just replace the word flop above and use bunker. I use almost the exact same swing for both. The only difference - and yes I sound like a little kid - but I love hitting spinning wedge shots out of the sand that look like you are pulling on the ball like a rope. They are just fun to watch. Not so useful but in a practice bunker there is nothing more fun to me.

[kafka01]

Think of it that way - how often do you actually get a flop from >20 feet close enough to the pin that you are left with a sure one putt? My guess is, not very frequently. So you take a high risk shot with a low success rate and mostly two putt anyways (if you didnt just hit it fat or skulled it somewhere OOB). So why not just play somewhere to a safe part of the green and take your chances from there?

[KwSipp]

Flop shots are cool when needed, but as far as you need it would be maybe an elevated green lets say 5ft or higher, I know at a course that I play with my pops theres a greenside bunker that measures from the bottom to the green is 14ft, or a close pin and god aweful fast green, other than that I use a 60 degree play it back keep the shaft leaning foward hands ahead of the ball and dont break your left wrist for the life of you, hit down on the ball and watch it check one bounce after it lands, case closed. Much easier to learn and trust. And some guys might argue this saying theres no way to leave a short putt this or that, well you keep skulling your flops and let me have a 4-5 footer coming back everytime Ill just chuckle at ya lol but no hard feelings

[Fourputt]

I should've been more specific on what put me there. Three cases I needed to carry a bunker to a tight pin. The first case resulted from doing exactly what David said and "short-sided" myself and didn't account enough for the elevated green...two of the other three had enough club but drew into a bad wind and landed in undesirable spots. The third was an approach that was long and in trouble...had to crest the rear hump behind the green and wanted to stop the ball on a steeply sloping green.

Another thing to consider... it sounds to me like you are shooting at pins that you maybe shouldn't be. Better course management can eliminate a lot of those shortsiding problems. I don't think I average more than one flop per 3 or 4 rounds.... There are usually better alternatives. I'd rather hit a normal pitch with my 58° and then face a 10 foot putt.... that's a much higher percentage combo than hit and hope on a flop and have either a low probability of a 3< foot putt, or more likely be chipping again from another lie in the rough.

When I'm playing in wind (happens a LOT this time of year in Colorado), I try even harder than usual to play to safe spots. That means that when I do miss, I'm usually looking a longish putt or a chip with a lot of green to work with.

[RC]

Flops are like huge matters of faith... any doubt and, well kiss it good bye. On the other hand, once the flop is automatic (or nearly so) it becomes a game of touch more difficult than a pitch or chip. I guess we would all agree on these comments. We all know it is a firm swing, but just how much to we open it up? How will the lie change the distance? Personally, a flop from a tight lie to an improbable shot side (probably elevated) pin and sinking the putt is perhaps more fun than a 300 yard drive. You feel like you have stolen a stroke. As a kid, we would practice flops for hours trying to hit it the highest and shortest distance. I have a theory that each year older you get makes that shot harder (Ha ha.) The longer you have played, the more you know about the myriad results of a missed flop. But I still love 'em.

[clubhousehero]

As far as bunker shots go, I would just replace the word flop above and use bunker. I use almost the exact same swing for both. The only difference - and yes I sound like a little kid - but I love hitting spinning wedge shots out of the sand that look like you are pulling on the ball like a rope. They are just fun to watch. Not so useful but in a practice bunker there is nothing more fun to me.

Thats how i play my bunker shots too. Don't know if it's right but it works. Only difference is hitting the sand before the ball. I have gotten much better out of the sand since i started and yes, it is cool having a ball check up.

[65withatriple]

Heres what works for me when attempting a flop.

1. Put the ball toward the front of you stance.
2. Have you hands BEHIND the ball. Opposite of a forward press. This will help keep the loft thru the swing.
3. Maybe take your back swing a little outside more that normal, like Furyk.


I bet if you practice this a few times berfore your round you will see improvement. You just need to get a feel for how hard to swing for your intented distance. Anyway, thats what works for me.

[Augusta Hacker]

Hey Dub.....where were you playing?

And I agree with what several posters already said.....you have to commit to the shot.....if you don't , you are screwed. I like to take a long swing with a very flat downswing so that I feel like I am sliding my 60 deg under the ball. I tend to let the club head out swing my hands and the ball just pops up. With the tight lies I am seeing out on courses now due to winter conditions, I haven't attempted any flop shots. When I am in that situation, I just take my 60 deg and chip it to the green with a steep downswing. I get a nice pop in the air and then a quick check on the green.

[golfdad]

Why do people do flop shots in the first place? I could be right next to the green, 10 yards out or whatever and I rarely have problems chipping the ball on. I've never felt the need to flop.

what if you approach short and wide in par 4 or 5 or even 3, your ball is in the rough, 25 yards away from the pin, but in between there is a bunker about 10 yard to cross.

often, you need to flop to land softer and stop quicker. this is a very important shot for the bag. ------- to the original poster: i think it is important to get some idea with your current setup,,,how much backswing corresponds to how much distance, air vs roll. also, keep the backswing tempo even, so that the energy into the shots are repeatable. i find a slower backswing works better because it allows better accuracy approaching the ball and better acceleration. also, there are 2 aways to contact the ball. either, severely cutting it with no wirst action, or 100 wrist action. somewhere in between because of hesitation tends to lead to poor contact and therefore poor confidence.