Quite the unique way to finish a Club Championship...

[Gioguy21]

So, I have a rules question. I've read the rules and believe that my club is in the wrong and I'm looking for some insight. First, let me lay out the scenario. It's down to the last hole, player a and player b are TOLD they are one stroke apart, player a to the advantage. Player a proceeds to par, as player b birdies, forcing what one would assume, a tie. Scores are tallied by the opponent, and then signed by the player. After being handed in to the commitee, *No mistakes were found at this point* and it was assumed to be a playoff. The two golfers then proceed to the first hole for a playoff. Player a then pars, player b bogeys. Now, at this point we're assuming player a has won by winning the first hole in a playoff after a tied match after 3 rounds (that's all we played due to weather). After the hole has been played, the commitee then deems player b the winner based on the fact that his birdie on the final hole was indeed for the win and not for the tie, AFTER the scores have been signed for and attested. Now, my question then lies, how is this possible? based on rules, it says that player b, turning in an incorrect card with a greater score, is not disqualified however the score stands as such, thus player a would win. How can player b be deemed winner?

[shades9323]

Local rules?

Player B should be dq'd for being an idiot. If I was in that match, I would know exactly what I shot and exactly what others in my group shot.

[MackJL06]

id say player A should realize he lost and not rely on a small hiccup to take a win...it might be a win "by the rules" but just realize whenever people look at the name of the championship that year they will know thats the guy that couldnt swallow his defeat

[right handed phil mickelson]

Actually no, Mack. You're wrong. Player A won fair and square. The only reason Player A 'didn't' win, was due to an error by the officials, which should be corrected. Golf is a game of honesty. If you honestly won, then you should get credit where credit is due.

[Zeph]

Was the score on his scorecard correct and they didn't count it up right, or was the score on a hole incorrect on the signed card, which the committe saw after the playoff and then corrected? A signed scorecard is a signed scorecard. If the scorecard is wrong, they player suffers.

Sergio Garcia disqualified from the PGA Championship because his playing partner, Boo Weekley, wrote a par instead of bogey on Sergio's card, which he failed to see and correct before the cards were turned in.

Edit: Mixed up a bit there, he wrote par, Sergio got bogey.

[MackJL06]

i understand the rules here...but if after 3 rounds B shot 1 less....live with it...he had the better score

[tjy355]

... After the hole has been played, the commitee then deems player b the winner based on the fact that his birdie on the final hole was indeed for the win and not for the tie, AFTER the scores have been signed for and attested. Now, my question then lies, how is this possible? based on rules, it says that player b, turning in an incorrect card with a greater score, is not disqualified however the score stands as such, thus player a would win. How can player b be deemed winner?

Not enough info.

Did the committee add the scores wrong? Did the player mark a wrong score? Did the player sign the card with the wrong score? It is all based on what's on the signed scorecards. Players are not responsible to add their scores, only to make sure each hole score is correct. The info given on the 18th tee would not be official in any way, especially if it conflicted with the actual score. If the hole by hole scores were correctly marked and attested and the committee added the scores wrong, then the playoff you won was just an unfortunate bit of a cruel joke. If the hole by hole scores were not correct, and the player signed for the wrong score, then he either must live with the higher score or be disqualified in the case of marking of a lower score. The committee may NOT alter a hole score after the card has been signed and submitted. Your description did not describe how the actual score discrepancy occurred?

[billm408]

Player A wins on the first playoff hole. Once player B signed the scorecard it was done. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Ask Roberto De Vincenzo.

[mdvaldosta]

What's with all the debate? Doesn't the RULE state that if you sign for an incorrect scorecard you're disqualified? Plain and simple, the backround info or circumstances shouldn't matter.

[Jay-Bird]

Here's the rule:

Rule 6-6d:

The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

The playoff stands. Player A is the winner.

[Zeph]

Thanks for the rule, I was looking for that one. Still, the OP has yet to elaborate exactly what happened. There may be different outcomes, like tjy355 explains. From the first post, we don't really know what happened.

[MiniMoe]

The player's only responsibility is the score on each and every hole. If the player signed his score card, and the committee added it up wrong, or posted it wrong, the mistake should be fixed. In this situation the committee should have tallied the scores before the guys went out for the play off. It is the committee's mistake, not the players. Now, if the score on the card was marked par and the committee changed the card to a birdie and he won...... way different story.

I played the biggest tournament in out town this past week. It is 4 days of two man best ball. The first day after we finished we signed out card and the hole by hole scores were correct. We waited around and they posted our score. I did not add it up before hand, because it's not my job... it's the committee's. At lunch I started thinking about the round and realized they posted the score wrong. I called the course and asked they check my card to make sure it was added up correctly. They called in a few minutes and said that in fact we did shoot one better than was posted (63 instead of 64). The committee made a mistake in posting the correct score for our team on a hole. I made a birdie and my partner made par. They put par for our team. They ended up changing the score because it was the committee that was filling out the better ball part of the card. (we also play individual so both players had a score for every hole.) The committee's mistake, so they fixed it. We ended up winning by three, so in the end it did not matter that much.

[Gioguy21]

OK, here are missing peices i guess that weren't expressed. The scores, marked hole by hole, on the scorecard were written down by the opponent. such as a does b's card, b's does a's. after each hole was written down, the final score was written by each opponent. THEN...the player was to review and sign. it was then handed to the committee, who deemed it correct, and checked addition only after the final scores were posted. hope this helps...?

[tsbrewers]

The way I am understanding it is that the hole by hole was correct, but player A wrote the wrong total.

For example, let's say player A shot a 72 and player B actually shot a 71. But Player A thinking that they had tied since that is what they were told, wrote 72 down as player B's total, instead of 71 (then player B would have won on the spot). Player B thinking that they tied, accepts and signs the card as a 72 moving in to a playoff.

So since player b signed for a 72 instead of his true 71 keeps playing, he is not DQ'ed since he signed for a higher score. Then goes on to lose to player A in the playoff. Player A wins because player B didn't check his score well enough.

If I was player B I would be pissed since they were tied going in to 18, not one back, but it still is his fault for not checking.

This is how I took the OP's question.

Brew

[iacas]

Player B thinking that they tied, accepts and signs the card as a 72 moving in to a playoff.

You were fine up until this point.

The committee is responsible for the math. The only responsibility of the player is to get the hole-by-hole scores correct. You can write nothing, "I won," or "12" or "7323" down for your "total" score and it's irrelevant. You don't have to add - just get each of the 18 hole totals correct. Player B wins if his 18 hole score was lower. That's it. What they did after - "playing" a hole - was irrelevant.

[Zeph]

OK, here are missing peices i guess that weren't expressed. The scores, marked hole by hole, on the scorecard were written down by the opponent. such as a does b's card, b's does a's. after each hole was written down, the final score was written by each opponent. THEN...the player was to review and sign. it was then handed to the committee, who deemed it correct, and checked addition only after the final scores were posted. hope this helps...?

Not really. Exactly where was the mistake? That's the question here. Did he write a wrong hole score or did the committee sum it up wrong?

If he wrote let's say a bogey instead of par on the card, which was signed and turned in, the bogey counts. If he wrote every hole correct, which gave him a total score lower than his oponent, he won the tournament. Then it was the committee that added it up wrong, only to realize this after the playoff. A player keeps track of his own score, as well as the playing partners. If he wrote his hole-by-hole score correct, he would know at the 18th tee how many shots he had used. Since he is also writing for the other player, he should know his score. If the committee announce that player A is leading by one shot at the 18th, both should quickly see if this was correct or not. Since they didn't say anything and played the hole as if player A was in the lead, was the scorecard wrong?

[plugged]

I think its obvious the OP is saying the committee added the scores up incorrectly, and only did so after the playoff had started. In that case, Player B won.

Stupid mistake on their part. They were probably rushing so everyone could make it back to the bar in time.

[tjy355]

I guess we'll never know...