Rules violations galore, what would you do?

[onthebeach]

After a hiatus from competition of oh, say, 15 years for me...I made my triumphant return in the form of my city medal play championship. My only goal was not to embarrass myself, which I managed to do not one full hole in.

Preface: I play a lot by myself, so I don't hole out 75% of my putts, I'm guessing. Well I'm sure you know where this is going...nervous as hell and picked up my 5" putt for a 6 on the first hole. In the championship flight. Yeah. I didn't even realize I did it, actually. The other two players informed me when we got to the next tee.

I know it's my fault for not knowing that I should've gone back and putt it out, but at the time I was nervous, embarrassed and a little rushed as the next group was pushing up behind us. Both other competitors said we'd get a ruling, not to worry about it. Not thinking, I believed them and teed off on #2.

Needless to say I already knew what was coming. I should've walked back and putt the damn ball out. Haunted me the entire round.

I choked more ways than I care to remember, and shot 80. So I know I'm out, and just looking forward to playing this muni again on day 2, stress free with no traffic on a nice weekend. Here's where it gets interesting though.

I kept player A's score. Player B kept mine. Nobody kept Player B's. Player A was so self absorbed there was no way he would've been able to confirm B's score. As I am just returning to competition and was still a little embarrassed, I let B dictate his scores to A, who then signed for B.

I left the course and then called up later to get my tee time for the following day. No record of me. Called tournament director - I had been DQ'd. I was upset, argued a little, and was told "I GUESS I can give you a tee time" (he was not thrilled). For some reason I didn't even think about what had transpired with the scores.

I opted not to play round 2 for a variety of reasons, but mainly b/c the whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth. I thought about how the other two competitors were quick to DQ me for my innocent 5" gimme, but mentioned nothing about their scorecards. I haven't seen the results, but as Player A shot 68 the first day and was rock solid, I'm positive he was in the top three.

What would you do? I struggled with calling the director all day yesterday, and opted not to. Besides, it would certainly look like it was just sour grapes, and these other two guys were thick as thieves with most of the competitors there.

Any advice for the future? I'm just curious how common this kind of crap is and how you all handle it. I know it's a part of the game, but should I just become a Rule Nazi and show zero mercy?

Thanks!

[pittpanther]

picked up my 5" putt for a 6 on the first hole. In the championship flight. The other two players informed me when we got to the next tee.

Well you did get a ruling - the ruling was you were DQ'd. A correct ruling, btw...

I left the course and then called up later to get my tee time for the following day. No record of me. Called tournament director - I had been DQ'd. I was upset, argued a little, and was told "I GUESS I can give you a tee time" (he was not thrilled).

Of course he was not thrilled - why would a DQd player expect to get a tee time for the next round? He should have told you to pound sand.

Any advice for the future? I'm just curious how common this kind of crap is and how you all handle it. I know it's a part of the game, but should I just become a Rule Nazi and show zero mercy?

Exactly what are you pissed off about? That A didn't keep close enough tabs on B's scores? I think you said it correctly - it sounds like sour grapes on your part. Let it go...

[iacas]

I thought about how the other two competitors were quick to DQ me for my innocent 5" gimme, but mentioned nothing about their scorecards.

They didn't DQ you. You DQed yourself by not finishing play on one hole before teeing off on the next. Perhaps they didn't know that rule specifically (and, frankly, if you hole out every putt like they probably do it's not a rule that comes up).

You're responsible for knowing the rules. You DQed yourself. Man up and take the responsibility. They didn't DQ you. I'd be shocked if a guy who was DQed insisted on a tee time for the second round. You forfeited that right when you were DQed.

What would you do? I struggled with calling the director all day yesterday, and opted not to.

Do you know for certain that the one player shot a higher score on any of the holes that he posted? They didn't break the rules. You seem to be assuming B cheated and lied when he gave his scores to A.

Any advice for the future? I'm just curious how common this kind of crap is and how you all handle it. I know it's a part of the game, but should I just become a Rule Nazi and show zero mercy?

A Rule Nazi? You picked up your ball in a medal play tournament and think other players conspired to DQ you, then you allege they've cheated and are contemplating complaining about this cheating without any proof at all. You've got a long way to go until you reach "Rule Nazi" status.

Instead of playing your round today, go buy and read the Rules of Golf. Or do it online for free.

[Rob]

You did it to yourself. They just followed the rules. We all probably get a little lax playing/practicing by ourselves,but the rules are the rules. Keep whacking away,and good luck the next time!

[Fourputt]

I can't imagine anyone playing in a stroke play tournament and not holing out. That is simply inconceivable to me. The fact that this is Rule 3-2, the second rule in the section on stroke play, tells me that this is a vital part of that format. The only type of competition when you don't have to hole out is match play, and even then only if your opponent has conceded the stroke.

I always hole out even in casual rounds. Playing by the rules is a habit for me, so when I'm in a competition I don't have to realign my thinking. I just play the same game I always play.

[brgolf]

I agree that the other players suggesting that they would 'get a ruling' was not helpful but if you are going to brush up on the rules, do it for yourself, not because you want to enforce the rules on others. Be thankful that you didn't get the chance to raise those points about the scorecards as that would have been a recipe to be laughed out of town.

[Chief Broom]

I always hole out even in casual rounds

This is key and the reason why you make sure to follow the rules especially during casual rounds. In addition to making following the rules second nature is having the ability to reliably knock in those short putts that "casual" golfers all too often take for granted. That sidehill one or two footer for par is hardly a gimmie, and if you never take the time to tap those in during a casual round you're going to be in big trouble when you find yourself facing one when it does count!

[Fourputt]

I left the course and then called up later to get my tee time for the following day. No record of me. Called tournament director - I had been DQ'd. I was upset, argued a little, and was told "I GUESS I can give you a tee time" (he was not thrilled). For some reason I didn't even think about what had transpired with the scores.

By the way.... if there had been a committeeman or rules official handy, you'd have been DQ'ed the moment you hit the tee shot on the second hole. They didn't have to wait until you finished the round. Although if I'd been playing with you, I'd have told you immediately and had you replace your ball and putt out. It would have cost you an additional stroke for lifting your ball in a manner not prescribed by the rules, but you'd have still been in the tournament.

As far as the scoring is concerned, the three of you should have done a three way card swap so that each was marking for someone else. It really isn't proper for one player to be keeping his own score in a tournament like that. I've been in that kind of situation often and we always do a rotated swap, often even when playing with four players in the grouping. There is no rule that says two players have to mark for one another, but it is assumed that each player in stroke play will have a marker, whether that is a fellow competitor or a person appointed by the committee who is not participating in the competition.

[onthebeach]

I agree that my not knowing the rules was a problem. I didn't play in the second round. The only reason I wanted to play at all was to get some time on a course that's always crowded. I did the right thing and didn't play round 2 though.

What am I missing about the scorecards ? Player B kept his own score, and Player A couldn't be bothered to do so. Whether the score was correct or not is moot. Further, when Player A signs for Player B's score is he not violating the rules as well?

What's with all the negative comments here? I'm only asking because I'm embarrassed that this happened, and want to keep the whole thing from happening again, on both mine and their counts. I played several long years of competitive golf and am trying to get my wheels back on after a long lapse. This was a small local stroke play event, not the USGA Mid-Am.

Constructive responses, other than "read the rules, a$$hole" are welcomed.

[cougar978]

I agree that my not knowing the rules was a problem. I didn't play in the second round. The only reason I wanted to play at all was to get some time on a course that's always crowded. I did the right thing and didn't play round 2 though.

How about 'read the rules, shankapotomous'? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Just treat it as a learning experience. I view it as the rules being in place to protect the field, not to penalize the player. Depending on how much the other guys talk about you, you may have a spotter following you around in the next tournament you play in. Anyone that gets DQ'd will draw suspicion - I f-ed up one round in high school and signed a wrong card just because I didn't check my score against my marker's - there was a coach following us most of the next round, which I went out and put up a 72 and got us a qualifying leg for state - I really wanted to tell the guy to suck it for thinking I cheated. Just go out there and do the right thing and you'll be fine.

[Fourputt]

I agree that my not knowing the rules was a problem. I didn't play in the second round. The only reason I wanted to play at all was to get some time on a course that's always crowded. I did the right thing and didn't play round 2 though.

If Player A "couldn't be bothered" then he had no business signing as Player B's marker, since he didn't mark anything. In reality, Player B's score was never truly verified. It's a situation that the committee should be made aware of, then it's up to them to resolve it. You were in a difficult position there since no matter what your true motivation, you'd have been looked on with suspicion if you had reported the scoring boondoggle.

I know that if I'd been in that group and NOT disqualified myself, I'd have informed the committee of the impropriety in the scoring. I may have done it even if I'd been in your position, I don't know for sure. I would not have tried to say whether the score was right or wrong, simply that there was room for question as it was not properly verified.

[iacas]

I did the right thing and didn't play round 2 though.

You did the right thing... after being told you were DQed and insisting that you should get a tee time anyway? Sorry, but I don't give much credit to people who "do the right thing" well after the fact.

What am I missing about the scorecards ? Player B kept his own score, and Player A couldn't be bothered to do so. Whether the score was correct or not is moot.

It's not moot. The rules say very little about this (see below).

Further, when Player A signs for Player B's score is he not violating the rules as well?

In what way is he violating the rules? You said B dictated his scores to A, who wrote them down and then attested to them.

Here's the relevant rule: http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14264#6-6 The rules say you "should" mark the score after each hole. They do not say you "must." Quite frankly, if both players were good as you say, it's probably quite easy for them to keep track of their scores relative to each other. I have no problems knowing where I stand relative to up to three other people I'm playing with - even if I'm giving them strokes - and they very well could have done the same thing. Yes, they "should" have kept score properly, but you said B dictated to A, A wrote the scores down at the end of the round, and that's what the rules say must be done. They just didn't do the "should" part, but that's not a requirement. Emphasis added:

Source: Rule 6-6 After each hole the marker should check the score with the competitor and record it. On completion of the round, the marker must sign the score card and hand it to the competitor. If more than one marker records the scores, each must sign for the part for which he is responsible. b. Signing and Returning Score Card After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.

That all aside, if I had noticed this bizarre (non-)scorekeeping occurring, I'd have spoken up immediately. If you noticed it from the start or early on in the round, it was poor form of you to not say something as soon as possible. Or you could have written B's scores down yourself. To be clear, I think it wasn't very cool - though not necessarily against the rules - for them to have failed to mark the scores after each hole.

What's with all the negative comments here?

They don't strike me as negative. They strike me as honest answers from people who simply see things differently than you. If you didn't want the answers, why ask? Do you not expect people to tell you when you're wrong?

... I played several long years of competitive golf and am trying to get my wheels back on after a long lapse. This was a small local stroke play event, not the USGA Mid-Am.

So because it's a local stroke-play event, the rules should let DQed players play a second round? Or maybe that you shouldn't have been DQed? Or what? I don't get what you're saying here - the rules are the rules. You broke them, whined about it a little, and people are telling you as much.

Constructive responses, other than "read the rules, a$$hole" are welcomed.

Nobody's sworn at you, and quite frankly, "read the rules" seems to me to be quite constructive since you violated one of the most basic ones out there. A good rules-reading session serve do you well.

[RemyM]

This was a small local stroke play event, not the USGA Mid-Am.

What's the difference? The rules of golf are the same no matter the level.

[USA 79S]

Me thinks this conversation is better to be had amongst friends, you'll probably find the tone of answers to be less argumentative. Sure you were wrong and learned from it, but my guess is this thread did zero to get you to the conclusion you sought. I sure hope I don't get punched in the face like this when I seek help and opinions in the future. And for those who will be quick to defend your opinions, I know you are highly skilled and knowledgeable when it comes to this game; much much more than I, but really I think that the tone of responses to this point have been very confrontational. Have a great weekend.

[WUTiger]

I agree that my not knowing the rules was a problem. ...

You learned something without getting publicly humiliated. And, don't bring up the scorecard thing. In today's atmosphere, people would think of the indicted politician who says, "Other people did wrong things too."

So, take it in stride and go on. It's a letdown, but at least you're back in competition. I can tell you care about golf, but it'll take a few tourneys to "get back in the swing" of competitive play.

[lcfd42]

A quote......(huckhack..ughh. clearing my throat.) "Can't we all just get along." from some guy about 20 years ago in California

[Shorty]

In a stroke play competition a few months back -just the normal Monthly Medal (first Saturday of the month at most Australian clubs) one of my elderly playing partners picked his ball up on the first hole, thinking it was stableford and that he had had a miss. I saw him reaching for his ball and as I yelled out "Jack!!!! It's stroke!!!!!" he had flicked his ball away - from less than 1 foot away from the hole.
The result. He had a not very enjoyable practise round. There was no question at all of whether we'd say "Don't worry mate, that would be a 6." Not even a possibility of it.
I have to tell you, that if, in a championship round someone picked up his ball before putting out there wouldn't even be a conversation about it. If it was the first hole you might think "Why the &*(* did he do that?", but you'd sort of assume that he knew what he did. I'd just give him his unsigned card at the end of the round and there wouldn't be any numbers on it after the hole where he'd DQ'd himself.

[Fourputt]

In a stroke play competition a few months back -just the normal Monthly Medal (first Saturday of the month at most Australian clubs) one of my elderly playing partners picked his ball up on the first hole, thinking it was stableford and that he had had a miss. I saw him reaching for his ball and as I yelled out "Jack!!!! It's stroke!!!!!" he had flicked his ball away - from less than 1 foot away from the hole.

I hate to say this Shorty, but that isn't an automatic DQ. All he had to do was replace the ball and putt out, add

one penalty stroke under Rule 20-1 for lifting his ball without marking it, and play on. It only becomes a disqualification penalty if he fails to correct his error before he plays a stroke from the next tee.