The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Open=more towards the target

Closed=more towards the ball

???

For a righty: open = an arrow from the right hip socket through the left hip socket points more left.

Remember that "open" and "closed" are relative terms. Hips only 5 degrees left of the target are more "open" than hips square to the target. And virtually everyone's hips are more "closed" than Jim Furyk's at impact.

[Stretch]

Saw a nice quote the other day from Stewart Maiden, the little Scotsman who taught Bobby Jones how to play golf. Suggests this particular "secret" has been around for a while.

After the club is taken back for a full shot, or for any shot with power in it, the important point is to start the downward swing properly.This is done by starting the left hip and the left shoulder together, drawing down the arms with the hands practically in the same position as at the top of the swing until they are about the hip level. There is where the real "hit" begins, and at that stage the left hip has been sent forward along the line of the shot, establishing tension through all the left side of the body; the right knee is beginning to knuckle in toward the ball, and the right heel is rising from the ground. If you will take this position, you will feel the tension and the sense of power and a certain readiness for the hands to whip the club through with the wrists turning over automatically. Of course you cannot think of all these things during a stroke. But you must start working it out by leading with the left hip, for without its movement along the line of the shot, and the resultant "sling" and snap imparted to the stroke as the ball is taken, there can be no such thing as a powerful, long, or perfect golf shot.

(Emphasis mine.)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Saw a nice quote the other day from Stewart Maiden, the little Scotsman who taught Bobby Jones how to play golf. Suggests this particular "secret" has been around for a while.

Nice find. And what's funny is that though you had to time the hickory shafted clubs more, and use a lot more educated hands, the basic physics of sliding your hips to the target and the power and speed (not to mention quality of contact) remain virtually the same, whether you're swinging hickory or steel or a wet rope.

[bunkerputt]

That's freaking amazing Stretch.  Very cool find.  Thanks for sharing.

[B-Con]

That really is a good description of hip slide. Very nice. :-)

[CuppedTin]

Quote:

After the club is taken back for a full shot, or for any shot with power in it, the important point is to start the downward swing properly.This is done by starting the left hip and the left shoulder together, drawing down the arms with the hands practically in the same position as at the top of the swing until they are about the hip level. There is where the real "hit" begins, and at that stage the left hip has been sent forward along the line of the shot, establishing tension through all the left side of the body ; the right knee is beginning to knuckle in toward the ball, and the right heel is rising from the ground. If you will take this position, you will feel the tension and the sense of power and a certain readiness for the hands to whip the club through with the wrists turning over automatically. Of course you cannot think of all these things during a stroke. But you must start working it out by leading with the left hip, for without its movement along the line of the shot, and the resultant "sling" and snap imparted to the stroke as the ball is taken, there can be no such thing as a powerful, long, or perfect golf shot.

Awesome and easy to understand. It would be nice if someone would take this exact quote and put it into a video...

[CuppedTin]

What do you all think about starting the hip slide just before you reach the top of the back swing?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

What do you all think about starting the hip slide just before you reach the top of the back swing?

That's the best time to do it.

[wrx143]

I learned to play golf as a child.  I never tried to make my hips slide forward, it came natural just as transferring weight from one foot to the other when throwing a ball came natural.  An important note to those who took the game up later in life when things don't naturally happen.  "Bent knees restrict hip slide".  That is why you keep flex in the back leg on the backswing and stiffen the front leg or "post up" in the follow through.  Yes, I totally agree, the hips should slide forward prior to impact and rotate only after the front leg posts up.  Absolutely great pics to demonstrate this concept.  Thank you!

[CuppedTin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

What do you all think about starting the hip slide just before you reach the top of the back swing?

That's the best time to do it.

When I start the push/slide right before I reach the top of the backswing I then feel like I am literally pushing off/jumping with my lead foot... I'm finally starting to actually make divots. It feels good to actually hit the ball first. I'll be signing up when winter hits for the monthly on-line lessons.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nick Faldo in his prime:

I have been reading again, and again this thread and I think it has been very good. And Nick Faldo is one of my idols as a player. I have owned his book "Golf The winning formula", 1989, for many years now. In this book he explains his swing and swing thoughts/feelings in very detailed way. The pictures in the book look exactly the same as in this 1992 article so I think the swing has stayed the same.

Below are some pieces from the book.

Top of the backswing:

"Hips: I sent the right hip back and round behind me, feeling fully wound up. Having turned if fully is is now going to feel resistance while the left side moves away from it."

Starting the downswing:

"Legs: Third, the most advanced of the movements, a feeling of keeping the right knee, foot and indeed the whole right side still, while the left knee is felt to separate from the right leg to start the leg action for the downswing."

Downswing:

"Legs: There is very definitely this feeling of separating left leg from the right leg, right leg resisting the movement through, so that the whole feeling is one of the left side opening away from it.

Hips: The left side really is pulling and I am trying to send the hip left hip back behind me. Again there is no lateral movement at all. Aslight lateral movement of an inch or two will happen, not consciously but as a result of the lift of the left shoulder in the change of direction."

In another chapter "Powerful legwork" he says "The leg action I am going to advocate may well be very different from your usual movements. Players have been doing two things which I don't believe are truly compatible. They have tried to play the ball too far forward in the feet, opposite the left heel, while at the same time trying to attack the ball from inside. This has required a distinct slide to left through impact, a tipping of the hips off their natural plabe and bowing out of the leg into impact. My feeling of the correct leg action is that it is certainly powerful, but that is is a circular turn - with no sideways movement either back or through- the turn being fully contained within the width of my stance."

So at least his feelings are very much opposed to the thrusting of the right knee or bowing the left knee. In the end he ends up on top of the outside of his left foot. But is this a result of sliding the hips during the stroke or only after the stroke?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by luu5

So at least his feelings are very much opposed to the thrusting of the right knee or bowing the left knee. In the end he ends up on top of the outside of his left foot. But is this a result of sliding the hips during the stroke or only after the stroke?

Look at the picture. His hips have slid forward 6+ inches. A lot of really good golfers don't feel the slide. But they all do the slide.

[CuppedTin]

I think it is physically impossible not to slide, therefore intentionally trying to restrict slide is a recipe for disaster.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by iacas

Look at the picture. His hips have slid forward 6+ inches. A lot of really good golfers don't feel the slide. But they all do the slide.

I know, but what I find at least academically interesting is, that he tries to "actively" not to slide, recipe for disaster or not. This in comparison to the people moving their right knee towards target or left toes or whatever.

[bunkerputt]

This is a great video of Mike Austin.  I've never really paid attention to him, but what a sharp guy.  He talks about a lot of things like centeredness of pivot, etc.  But at around 2:45 he talks a little bit about where the hips are at impact.  Pretty square to the target line.  It seemed like it would fit fairly well in this thread.

[bplewis24]

I'm going to wear that suit to the next course I play at.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I'm going to wear that suit to the next course I play at.

Does it come with turtle neck or collars?

[bplewis24]

Collars of course.  Collared shirts are a requirement of the course.

Brandon