The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by iacas

We call it "linear along the circle."

Yes, it's slide and rotation. Most people do enough rotation and need more slide.

Thanks!  That description works.

[bunkerputt]

I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for people to get this concept if they focused on keeping the head back and sliding their knees instead of their hips...

Make a few swings like this trying to get the knees moving towards the target during the transition:

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for people to get this concept if they focused on keeping the head back and sliding their knees instead of their hips...

That's how we teach it to a lot of people who can't feel it properly via the hips. The lead knee specifically, rarely the trail knee.

[Mr. Desmond]

Okay - I am in the process where the center pivot swing is great one day, not so great the next. Maybe I'm watching too making secretinthedirt videos. I had my right elbow plastered to my right side with the result that I pushed everything right. I guess the swing got too narrow coming down. I stopped watching those videos and look here and at Bennett and Plummer.

One issue I'm having is that I am tilting and extending on the backswing, and then coming down, get that front knee moving, and think I am sliding those hips, but I still hit slightly heavy. I figured out that I am not extending on the downswing to get the catapult effect. But how does one slide without the head going backwards - I've tried to drive the front shoulder and then slide and get the left hip higher (throwing the boulder).

I have the feeling that I am so afraid of tilting the head back that I am not throwing the boulder soon enough or extending through the downswing.

Make sense?

[iacas]

It does, but you could simply be throwing out the wedge prematurely too.

Try some pre-set drill work. Your head shouldn't move at all during that, the weight is pre-set forward at impact conditions (or close to it), and you can work on or check the wedge.

[secondary]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's how we teach it to a lot of people who can't feel it properly via the hips. The lead knee specifically, rarely the trail knee.

I resemble this remark.  I know everyone is different, but is that a thought similar to getting the lead knee heading down target line before bs is complete?  Sliding hips is BY FAR the hardest thing for me.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by iacas

It does, but you could simply be throwing out the wedge prematurely too.

Try some pre-set drill work. Your head shouldn't move at all during that, the weight is pre-set forward at impact conditions (or close to it), and you can work on or check the wedge.

Thank you.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's how we teach it to a lot of people who can't feel it properly via the hips. The lead knee specifically, rarely the trail knee.

Yeah we've been using this visual and feel a lot on Evolvr the past year.  Easier for most to feel and also gives them the ability to use the ground to "jump" and stretch into the followthrough.

[onlybereaved]

Thank you for this thread.  I read it last night on my graveyard shift...took it all in - and was able to make sense of it reasonably quickly.

I went to the range today and within 10 balls I was hitting straight or draw shots where I usually would play a little cut/fade/slice.

It makes sense now, that regardless of my strong grip, my proper swing plane, stance, releasing the club, and everything else being correct...it is almost impossible to not cut/fade/slice when my hips spin out.  It causes my shoulders to be open to the point of not even giving myself a chance at an inside out draw shape swing/shot.

I would say that this gave me 10-15 yards extra distance, and my ball flight is much more desirable.  I also added lead-tape to my driver to favor a draw shape.

Respect.  Thanks again.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for people to get this concept if they focused on keeping the head back and sliding their knees instead of their hips...

Make a few swings like this trying to get the knees moving towards the target during the transition:

Wouldn't "tucking the butt" accomplish the same thing?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Limpinswinger

Wouldn't "tucking the butt" accomplish the same thing?

That comes later. Knee and hips slide forward, then you tuck the butt.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by mdl

My question is this.  To not get my hips to push towards the ball as well as forward, I've been experimenting with having the feeling in the swing being starting my swing both by sliding my hips forwards but also rotating my front hip away from the ball to keep my back hip from pushing towards the ball so my and aiming my whole momentum right of the target. My hips are slightly more open at impact this way than most of the pics Erik's posted in this thread, but it's been helping prevent my hands from dropping down early and pushing the ball.  Is this necessarily wrong?

Originally Posted by iacas

Is it necessarily wrong? No. Is it likely optimal? Probably also no.

If your hips are moving towards the golf ball then that's what's called "early extension." You're extending - standing up (in the hips) - prematurely. Dave and I prefer to call it "lack of regaining flexion" because you're extended at the top of the backswing, then you regain flexion (roughly address posture at about P5.5 to P6 in the downswing - except the hips are more forward), then you extend again through the shot.

I'd recommend trying this drill instead. Put a chair or something up against your butt. Slide forward along the chair (a folding table works really well too because it provides a better edge), keeping your butt/hips in contact with the chair/table. If your butt moves away from the table, you've "early extended."

Always a work in progress.  And I don't have a video to post so of course no one can give a great analysis.  But I thought I'd share what I'm working on anyway.

I still struggle with coming from the inside but not getting the face closed.  I decided to try to fix this problem once and for all by playing for a while trying to hit a draw with every single shot, both on the course and while practicing, rather than accepting my "natural" shot is a fade or push-fade and just trying to minimize how much it fades or how far right it starts.  So I've been working really hard trying to hit the draw, and I've been getting the feel of closing the face.

But now my problems with my hips have come back into play big time, as I often either come from way inside with the hips pushing too much towards the ball and get the face at least closed relative to swing path but hit a huge push with anything from a baby draw to a baby fade, or keep my hips further back but turn them too early, come across it with the face slightly closed to the swing path, or sometimes in-to-in with a very closed face, and hit pull draws or big straight or slightly pulled hooks.

One feel for me that's been helping recently is feeling the slide not as sliding the point of my front hip forward at the start of the swing, but instead sliding my front butt cheek down the target line, but not towards the ball.  When thinking about sliding the point of my hip bone on the front side, I either slide it along the line my hips are pointing at the top, which pushes my whole pelvis towards the ball and lines me up for a big push, or starts a slide and rotation together at the start of the down swing, rotating my hips too early and tending to result in an out-to-in plane at impact, which with getting the club face closed relative to my swing path is obviously bad news.

With starting the slide by feeling my left butt cheek slide instead of feeling the point of my hip slide, I've had more success getting my hips forward, down the target line, but without starting the hip rotation so early or shifting them towards the ball at the start of the down swing.  On the good swings, this helps me feel the hips move forward but the shoulders stay approximately where they started in terms of moving towards the target or not, while really feeling my right shoulder get low and my whole body "under" the shot, and coming off my back foot on the whole inside edge, instead of standing up with my back foot rotating up onto my toe and my ankle sometimes even rolling all the way over towards the ball.

Again, this is only on the good shots and it's always a work in progress, but I thought I'd share the current struggles.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mdl

I still struggle with coming from the inside but not getting the face closed.  I decided to try to fix this problem once and for all by playing for a while trying to hit a draw with every single shot, both on the course and while practicing, rather than accepting my "natural" shot is a fade or push-fade and just trying to minimize how much it fades or how far right it starts.  So I've been working really hard trying to hit the draw, and I've been getting the feel of closing the face.

To be clear about something: if your normal shot is a fade or a push-fade, then you are not "coming from the inside."

I think you should review the ball flight laws quickly, as path is not what determines where the ball starts, and you say a few things that seem as if you feel it's that way.

Originally Posted by mdl

One feel for me that's been helping recently is feeling the slide not as sliding the point of my front hip forward at the start of the swing, but instead sliding my front butt cheek down the target line, but not towards the ball.  When thinking about sliding the point of my hip bone on the front side, I either slide it along the line my hips are pointing at the top, which pushes my whole pelvis towards the ball and lines me up for a big push, or starts a slide and rotation together at the start of the down swing, rotating my hips too early and tending to result in an out-to-in plane at impact, which with getting the club face closed relative to my swing path is obviously bad news.

It's a good feel we use fairly often. We'll even put a little "board" up for people to slide their butts along.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by mdl

So I've been working really hard trying to hit the draw, and I've been getting the feel of closing the face.

Why not just hinge in a way so the face doesn't open relative to the path on the backswing?

Without seeing your swing, bury your chin in your chest at setup, relax your arms, shoulders, and legs a bit and see what happens.  My guess is your shoulder inclination is too flat, which makes it impossible to slide without compensation from the arms and hands.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by iacas

. . . It's a good feel we use fairly often. We'll even put a little "board" up for people to slide their butts along.

I see a patent application in your near future.  "The butt board."

[Bananarama]

Originally Posted by iacas

To be clear about something: if your normal shot is a fade or a push-fade, then you are not "coming from the inside."

You know this is not true, if he comes from an inside -> outside path with an open face (to the path) he will push it and fade it.

[Bananarama]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Why not just hinge in a way so the face doesn't open relative to the path on the backswing?

Without seeing your swing, bury your chin in your chest at setup, relax your arms, shoulders, and legs a bit and see what happens.  My guess is your shoulder inclination is too flat, which makes it impossible to slide without compensation from the arms and hands.

+1.  go straight to 1:40 and see his hands, his hinge does not open the club face.  If you are trying to get the feeling of closing the face then you are probably using timing to do it - which is bad imho.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Bananarama

You know this is not true, if he comes from an inside -> outside path with an open face (to the path) he will push it and fade it.

Of course that's true, but he said his natural shot was "a fade or a push-fade." Virtually nobody who describes their natural shot that way is coming from the inside.

And it's unlikely that he's playing a "from inside-out" push-fade. It's more likely he has the BFL wrong and thinks he's swinging inside-out when he's not.