The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[HawkNballs]

A belt with a protractor, ha ha! Wait, I'm sure someone already thought of that. Lo and behold. The Hip Trax Core Laser.

If that dude makes a proper rotation on the downswing... he will have some 2" splinters in the bottom of his feet. ;)

[mvmac]

Thanks for the reply. So you get to the 40 degrees open at impact via a continuous rotation and shift from the top, or is it a shift first and then a rotation? I might be overthinking this :D.

You rotate as you transfer.

Thanks for the reply. So you get to the 40 degrees open at impact via a continuous rotation and shift from the top, or is it a shift first and then a rotation? I might be overthinking this :D.

Yes, you need to focus on what YOU need to work on. Not play "golf by numbers".

Also at impact how much can the right foot lift off the ground to enable hip turn?

It's fine for it to come off the ground a little. Basically don't want it coming off the ground at/before A6 (shaft parallel to the ground on the backswing).

[porc]

Interesting video by Mark, on rotating as well as shifting.

I might be guilty of shifting laterally without much rotation, and probably need to open up my hips more. At impact hips need to be open 40 degrees, so without rotation you wont get there. Also the left leg being in the process of straightening only happens if you also rotate. If you shift only there wont be a straightening of the left leg. Also the rotation (with a lateral shift) helps get the club around the body (which might help with pushes, were you swing out to the left for too long).

Anyway nice summary of the combination thats necessary: rotation and shift by Mark. I also like the drill.

[iacas]

Interesting video by Mark, on rotating as well as shifting.

I might be guilty of shifting laterally without much rotation, and probably need to open up my hips more. At impact hips need to be open 40 degrees, so without rotation you wont get there. Also the left leg being in the process of straightening only happens if you also rotate. If you shift only there wont be a straightening of the left leg. Also the rotation (with a lateral shift) helps get the club around the body (which might help with pushes, were you swing out to the left for too long).

[Tomputt]

Great Post....always had trouble getting that weight to the front foot on the down swing.  After seeing the  photo of Hogan, I noticed how wide his stance was.  I tried widening my stance and found it was much easier  to push off the rear foot in the downswing...I have more power and finally taking a divot in front of the ball.

[Crazycanuck44]

I really think that the open hips thing is what i'm not doing. I've been struggling off the tee hitting low snaps and I'm concentrating on getting my weight forward and head stiill. I will try this drill for sure thanks 5 guys :)

[CaptHook]

Love this thread as it's what I've been working on recently. Never struck the ball so solidly and actually see proper divots : ) May have to update my HC and change my TST name soon! : )

[natureboy]

Why do you think gary player kicks his right knee in right before he starts his swing? It's so that at the top he can feel like he is pushing off of the inside of his right foot. I copied this move, and it have helped my accuracy and consistancy alot, not to mention increased my distance.

Henrik Stenson too.

I agree that Hogan's hips extend well toward the target at impact and at finish relative to address, but there's more than one way to get there on the downswing. I think he did what he said. He said his only thought was to turn once he had 'enough lateral movement to get to the left side'. It might just be semantics, but I would say his front hip got 'pushed' there rather than 'slid' during his pivot.

[Jameson]

Love this thread as it's what I've been working on recently. Never struck the ball so solidly and actually see proper divots : ) May have to update my HC and change my TST name soon! : )

Please tell us something more about your feelings and how to achieve this !

[32quattro]

So this guy telling me that 80 or 90% of best players have the weight forward at impact :

[iacas]

So this guy telling me that 80 or 90% of best players have the weight forward at impact:

No, I'm saying that virtually all of the game's best players have between 80-95% of their weight (which is actually their force or the summation of the pressures) beneath their front foot at impact with a mid-iron.

We know this to be a fact because it has been measured thousands of times on the game's best players (and many of the game's poorer players).

You'll find, @32quattro (welcome to TST btw!) that we love to discuss things like this here. If you can "break" something, that's the best thing, because we can instantly get better and more knowledgeable. You'll also find that we probably have specific threads about these kinds of topics, like this one: for weight distribution (really again it's force or the summation of pressure, not actual "weight" which you can't accurately measuring in a dynamic system).

As this is somewhat off topic here, I'll reply to the rest of your other questions in a spoiler bubble.

Analog scales are horrible devices to use for this kind of thing. You could slam your foot down and pick it up and it might say there's 200 pounds of pressure under that foot while it's gone back in the air. They take time for the dials to move to where they want/need to go. So pairing them up like this is a really bad idea. The numbers shown for "post impact" are closer to what you'd actually see.

Seriously, just look at the Greg Norman example. Do you seriously expect the weight to go from 27% left to 90% left in that amount of time?

Also note how with driver the weight, even in this hackneyed setup, doesn't get as far forward? We've been saying the same thing, and the 80-95% rule is for irons. For driver, the weight still goes forward, just not as much. And again, when we say "weight" that's a simplification I've learned to accept, but really we mean force, or the summation of pressures.

Drivers.

Drivers.

Drivers.

---

Drivers are a different swing. Even still, for example, look at the Bubba Watson photo. Absolutely his "weight" is predominantly forward. His trail heel is being lifted from the ground, he's extending his front knee and "jumping" like crazy. His force is going to tend to be forward. This is also evidenced by the fact that he often comes off his front foot just after impact - it is in the air just after impact because he is pushing against the ground so much it is enough to overcome gravity and get him airborne. Even in the long drive hitters, though they're even LESS forward as they're trying to hit up 8-9° or so, the force tends to get forward.

And, many pros still get their weight well forward with the driver (see below, which is just used as an example with the driver, not to say 80-95% applies to the driver too), though again, the commonality and the numbers 80-95% are with a mid-iron. They're pretty consistent with almost all irons, though.

P.S. Bill's hips have slid forward. :)

[32quattro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

No, I'm saying that virtually all of the game's best players have between 80-95% of their weight (which is actually their force or the summation of the pressures) beneath their front foot at impact with a mid-iron.

First thanks to your welcome to the forum. The video we are referring to should be changed to "only mid irons" so. Anyway I don't understand how your first post at page 1 shows Perry with a Driver and then my pics are off topic.

1) In the video is mentioned that pros are well open at impact while in your first post (page 1) you are saying they don't.

2) The weight on a foot is not based on how many square/inches are in contact with the ground (see ballerinas on classic dance)

3) If you are referring to forces directed forward, that totally different from weight forward. In any case forces are going down and up as well so suggesting to slide the hips forward is incorrect.

If you explain to a student to move his hips forward (as in your first post page 1) you are looking for blocks/straight pushes/flipping simply because you are moving his sternum forward. Now the student must through the arms to save the shot or has to slow down the body and play catch up

[saevel25]

First thanks to your welcome to the forum. The video we are referring to should be changed to "only mid irons" so. Anyway I don't understand how your first post at page 1 shows Perry with a Driver and then my pics are off topic.

Not really. It is a good video for all swings.

1) In the video is mentioned that pros are well open at impact while in your first post (page 1) you are saying they don't.

He doesn't say that at all. This is quoted from the first post from this thread,

PGA Tour players can have their hips slightly open to way open at impact. Open at impact is a good position to have.

3) If you are referring to forces directed forward, that totally different from weight forward. In any case forces are going down and up as well so suggesting to slide the hips forward is incorrect.

Again, most amateurs do not slide or rotate their hips enough before and through impact. They tend to stay on their right side, causing a flip.

Again, the first post did mention the hips have to get open at impact as well. This is not just advocating moving laterally with the hips. Moving the hips laterally is a good place to start for most amateurs. Then they can start working on getting the hips to open more. A laterally move can help facilitate he hips opening anyways.

I'd rather see a golfer with a lateral hip move, and square hips at impact than a golfer with no lateral hip move and square hips at impact. The first would produce much more consistent ball striking and a less likely chance of hitting fat and thin shots.

If you explain to a student to move his hips forward (as in your first post page 1) you are looking for blocks/straight pushes/flipping simply because you are moving his sternum forward. Now the student must through the arms to save the shot or has to slow down the body and play catch up

Nope, hips move, chest stays centered pretty much till impact.

Look at Rory. Red line is his address left hip position. Orange line is his sternum position at address. Green line shows how much his hips have moved laterally from the top of the backswing to about 1/3rd the way down in the downswing. Note hos his head stays steady and the orange line stays on his sternum. Lateral shift does not cause the sternum to move forward. It takes basically just at impact for his sternum to barely move off that orange line.

Your assertion that having a lateral hip move will cause the sternum to move is incorrect.

[mvmac]

If you explain to a student to move his hips forward (as in your first post page 1) you are looking for blocks/straight pushes/flipping simply because you are moving his sternum forward. Now the student must through the arms to save the shot or has to slow down the body and play catch up

The sternum isn't moving forward, the lower body is transferring forward, creating axis tilt (yellow line).

@32quattro you seem to be hung up on a lot of old golf myths, good thread for you to read. I get you're trying to "challenge" the information but @iacas is one of the smartest guys in golf and he's done his homework.

[CaptHook]

Please tell us something more about your feelings and how to achieve this !

Well when i hit the ball poorly, im getting stuck on my right foot and flipping my hands. I read "The Impact Zone" and it helped me realize impact with a better understanding. (This forum helps too ;)
I FEEL like at the top of my swing, i bump my hips laterally, which drops me in the slot, then let my right shoulder fire through. My upper body stays covering the ball like some have already mentioned.

Hope this helps someone as I'm just another hacker in pursuit of a reliable golf swing!

[natureboy]

2) The weight on a foot is not based on how many square/inches are in contact with the ground (see ballerinas on classic dance)

3) If you are referring to forces directed forward, that totally different from weight forward. In any case forces are going down and up as well so suggesting to slide the hips forward is incorrect.

If you explain to a student to move his hips forward (as in your first post page 1) you are looking for blocks/straight pushes/flipping simply because you are moving his sternum forward. Now the student must through the arms to save the shot or has to slow down the body and play catch up

re. ballet it's easy to say that the toe of one foot is carrying the whole body's weight when the other is off the ground. While you can't know for sure without force plates, it's reasonable to view a slightly lifted heel vs. a firmly planted whole foot as an indication of which foot is primarily carrying the weight of the body in a still of a dynamic golf swing.

I think you and @saevel25 are both a bit right, though I think he's righterer. Lateral hip movement through the downswing and impact does move the sternum...the lower sternum if done correctly (hips somewhat 'disconnected' from shoulders / kinetic sequence), slightly changing its orientation to the vertical...resulting in secondary axis tilt as the shoulders lag the hips and the upper sternum remains centered.

Nope, hips move, chest stays centered pretty much till impact.

Look at Rory. Red line is his address left hip position. Orange line is his sternum position at address. Green line shows how much his hips have moved laterally from the top of the backswing to about 1/3rd the way down in the downswing. Note hos his head stays steady and the orange line stays on his sternum. Lateral shift does not cause the sternum to move forward. It takes basically just at impact for his sternum to barely move off that orange line.

Your assertion that having a lateral hip move will cause the sternum to move is incorrect.

I think you and @32quattro are both a bit right, though I think you're righterer. Lateral hip movement through the downswing and impact does move the sternum...the lower sternum if done correctly (hips somewhat 'disconnected' from shoulders / kinetic sequence), slightly changing its orientation to the vertical...resulting in secondary axis tilt as the shoulders lag the hips and the upper sternum remains centered.

The sternum isn't moving forward, the lower body is transferring forward, creating axis tilt (yellow line).

Yep. Not the whole sternum anyway...see above.

[Crazycanuck44]

Well I've read this whole thread and I have to say it's helped me a lot. Especially doing one thing at a time, work on slide then work on  opening hips(when i remember to do it that is). Best thread IMO. ..

[32quattro]

Not really. It is a good video for all swings.

[...]

Nope, hips move, chest stays centered pretty much till impact.

Look at Rory. Red line is his address left hip position. Orange line is his sternum position at address. Green line shows how much his hips have moved laterally from the top of the backswing to about 1/3rd the way down in the downswing. Note hos his head stays steady and the orange line stays on his sternum. Lateral shift does not cause the sternum to move forward. It takes basically just at impact for his sternum to barely move off that orange line.

Your assertion that having a lateral hip move will cause the sternum to move is incorrect.

Maybe you are not paying attention to the audio in the video. It says white when the author of the thread says black referring to Golf Digest. It is there clearly available for everyone. I won't carry on on that.

The video can be good for beginners, not for better players. You need mass behind the ball, while the guy simulating the swing is sliding forward on his front foot while retaining lag. To me is incorrect and is sending the wrong message.  Where is the mass (weight in kg) on better players (top pro players), behind or in front the ball ? . You need to have some 'meat' behind the ball not just some arms catching up.

I am not picking a single player as an example but to me Rory is moving his left hip backwards after pushing down the ground with the right foot instep and consequently directing his left knee forward left.

If my assertion is true, how do you slide forward and at the same time squat down your right leg ? You can't. If you slide you are dead (better players would say).