The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I hope it's okay if I repost Dave's video. It helps me tremendously with the slide or secondary axis tilt (I think that is the correct term) by thinking about throwing a boulder. I basically drive the front shoulder then go into throwing a boulder.

Great video. Thanks for posting.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Sliding the hips forward. From my experience, a lot of people sway during the backswing and then hit from a position further back than where they started from. Usually this is coupled with the early uncocking of the wrists. What I have noticed when working on sliding the hips forward is the early uncocking of the wrists continues regardless of where the hips are at impact. I usually work on a steady head first, then weight forward...but perhaps I need to concentrate on the wrists before the weight forward piece.

Too vague to really answer in depth, but I disagree. We tend to work right along with the order of the Keys, which is in that order for a reason (well, many reasons). But again, too vague to say for sure.

P.S. We rarely - almost never - "concentrate on the wrists." Something else tends to cause the issues with lag.

[Zeph]

I can speak for myself. Improving the action of the wrists (or rather the speed of the arms) became easier when I got the weight part working. Focusing on a steady head and weight forward first makes sense to me.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

P.S. We rarely - almost never - "concentrate on the wrists." Something else tends to cause the issues with lag.

Interesting. So an example might be working on maintaining shoulder tilt in the downswing?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Interesting. So an example might be working on maintaining shoulder tilt in the downswing?

Or change the rates at which the arms come down. Or the left knee extends. Or the hips turn. Or the neck tilts. Or the wrists roll. Or elbow depth and trajectory. Etc. etc. etc. Long list.

I'm going to get bumper stickers made that say "Lag Happens."

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Interesting. So an example might be working on maintaining shoulder tilt in the downswing?

Swing to target anything else is silly.

or if one want to be stuck with the swing instead of playing great golf go ahead with details and the process.

[Phil McGleno]

Says a guy that doesn't break 80 very often if at all.

It's not that simple.

Originally Posted by soon_tourpro

Swing to target anything else is silly.

or if one want to be stuck with the swing instead of playing great golf go ahead with details and the process.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by soon_tourpro

Swing to target anything else is silly.

That is one of the worst pieces of advice you can give someone.

[grapppa]

I disagree that it is bad advice.  I am a fairly strong player (5.4) and think that the thought of swinging the shaft to the target is a very, very effective thought.  It will compensate for flaws in the swing ... I know because it works for me as a on the course thought I use - which is very different from my range thoughts.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by grapppa

I disagree that it is bad advice.

The reason I do not like this advice is because it tends to cause players to swing only with their arms and stop using their bodies throughout the swing. Connection between the upper arms and torso is lost. The clubhead is in contact with the target line for only a split second, there are no straight lines in the golf swing.

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by grapppa

I disagree that it is bad advice.  I am a fairly strong player (5.4) and think that the thought of swinging the shaft to the target is a very, very effective thought.  It will compensate for flaws in the swing ... I know because it works for me as a on the course thought I use - which is very different from my range thoughts.

I don't think its bad advice, but keep in mind that what may work for you may not for someone else. Everyone has there own way of thinking on the golf course.

[The_Pharaoh]

As an instructor, I prefer not to use technically incorrect terminology during my lessons. I'd rather correct the student's swing error some other way. For example, if they are swinging out-to-in I'd work on a piece earlier in the swing, perhaps the takeaway or downswing, that would improve the follow through.

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

That is one of the worst pieces of advice you can give someone.

I assume you dont understand the advice then as its likely the best one out there.
Any other sport works like that, if you dont get that I would suggest you get a grip in how the brain does things in learning things and why most here and in other forums are lost in swingcrack.

It works with the golf Pro I coach, it works with a 36 handicap golfer so I assume what I do works when they swing to target.

[Zeph]

Swing to target anything else is silly. or if one want to be stuck with the swing instead of playing great golf go ahead with details and the process.

What does "swing to target" mean?

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Zeph

What does "swing to target" mean?

It's like one of those Patrick57 vaguaries. Vague enough that it can never be wrong. If you think it's wrong, then "you don't understand it". And for those it helps, it's left enough room for them to add their own feelings, thoughts etc which makes it work for them.

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by Zeph

What does "swing to target" mean?

External focus from body.

meaning applying that to common golf instruction you will learn about 3 times faster than normal.

Its also how you can enter the zone.

I used that to teach people skills, re-tooled a golf pro swing in 3 weeks doing that not 2 years.

Its all in your head anyway arguably however depending on the focus point the difference is massive.

Is it vague?

Sure but having swing thoughts as you learn or as you swing is slowing down your swing, it makes your accuracy worse and your game will suffer.
Focus on target combined with proper tempo for your own body type, allows a new motion to be discovered and aligned without you need to understand how to move your hips or such.

There is a difference between your own feel and perception of what your doing which video wont help with.

The instruction has to be vague enough for the individual to explore their own motion and specific enough so they can wait for it to happen without concerning them with swing thoughts or such while learning a new swing or tweaking a motion. That allows skill enhancement in days or weeks which normally would take months or even years. The good thing is for the individual once they do it that way "swing to target" as they learn the new motion, they will discover how their body moves when doing it after a time. Much easier to learn golf that way IMO.

If you got questions about this I am happy to answer them to my ability.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Mordan

It's like one of those Patrick57 vaguaries. Vague enough that it can never be wrong. If you think it's wrong, then "you don't understand it". And for those it helps, it's left enough room for them to add their own feelings, thoughts etc which makes it work for them.

I think soon_tourpro is another one of P57's guises.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by soon_tourpro

External focus from body.

In other words, it's kind of off topic for this thread. Please start a separate thread. Thanks.