Slow Play

[bplewis24]

That's great, but can somebody clue me in as to what the term means?

Brandon

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I absolutely can't stand slow play, and I think people who play golf for recreation and enjoyment should be abolished from playing. When I play, my #1 priority is to finish as fast as possible. For me anything over 3 hrs for 18 is intolerable.  Walking should never be allowed. And they should make golf carts go faster so that I can be sitting next to my ball waiting 5 seconds after I hit it instead of the agonizing 20 seconds that it currently takes. Plus, people that suck should not be allowed to play. Why should I have to wait for you because you're always searching for your ball, you worhtless POS? Don't you realize you're taking up my time?! How dare you.. It's the same with everything I do. When I go fishing, I don't want to be sitting there all day doing something that I love. I get in, take a few casts, and go home. That's the way it should be done.

So, I have been playing golf for about 25 years, and I can't recall when this emphasis on fast play started taking over. I can remember insanly crowded sundays where I would wait 1 hour to tee off, and then play a 5 hour round totally backed up, and no one really cared.  I think that the Tiger effect and the fact that courses need the volume to stay in business are the real drivers of the current fast play craze

Yesterday I played a 4 hour round, and yeah it was a little slow here and there, but so what?  The really annoying part, however, was that we were hit into 3 times by one of those groups made of guys who thought they were really good, and should be playing a 3 hour round. They were hitting from the blues, but usually when I looked back they were scattered all over the course - left, right, short, and maybe one ball down the middle. We had a solid wall of 4somes in front of us, but these jackasses thought they were entitled to hit into us. Once was on a  green, and then there were back to back drives each landing 5 or 10 feet from us. This then caused us to go ahead and hit into the group in front of us on the green to get out of the line of fire.

Golf is becoming a pressure-packed high stress activity. I think I might start working more just to take my mind off of golf...

Why would you put the guys ahead of you at risk because of what the guys behind you are doing?

Maybe they hit into you because they were trying to get out of the line of fire of the guys behind them.  Then you wouldn't have a valid complaint since that is what you did.

[Doctorfro]

Four hours is a good speed for a foursome of amateur golfers.  If no one ever hits one in the trees or a hazard and everyone hits every fairway and green  you might get done in three and a half.  Be reasonable.  Most golfers are hitting over 100 shots per round.  That takes a while........unfortunately.

[Parker0065]

A lot of great and not so great points on slow play in this thread. As been already mentioned there are many circumstances that go into slow play from bad golfers to gamblers to PGA Tour wanna be's, or just simply course congestion. I've played with really good players that were slow and really bad players that were fast. Speed of play is all over the place and it's up to the individual to take responsibility in keeping up with the pace.

In some cases the person just doesn't have a clue they are slowing down play. A perfect example was 2 weeks ago I made a tee time for myself, my son and my Father inlaw. We normally get around as a threesome in 4 hours with my son and I walking and Grandpa in his cart on an extremely hilly layout. On the 1st tee a single walks up and asks if he could join us. We say sure and prepare to hit our tee shots. I play from the blue's(back tees), my son play's from the white's(regular mens), and my Father inlaw plays from the gold's(senior tees). The single walks back to the blue's and say's oh your playing from back here. I say sure but my son is hitting from the white's and you can join him up there. He say's "oh no, I'll play back here with you, I'm not keeping score and I just want to get in some practice". Well he proceeds to smoke his drive a whoping 150 yards into the right rough, and I instantly knew this was going to be one slow ass day, and it was. I tried a few times during the round to nudge the guy up to the forward tees but he wouldn't have any of that, he was going to play the big boy tees today. The thing is he wasn't exactly a slow player but all his extra shots he had to find, select club, go through pre-shot routine, and swing playing from the wrong set of tees made it a 5:15 hour round. The course wasn't crowded that day but we did have to let one group play through. It was just amazing that this guy had no clue how much he was really slowing down play just because he was on the wrong set of tees.

Slow play will never go away but we could all do a little better at trying to educate those that are slowing down play. It's doesn't always work though, like in my situation the guy never got the hints to move up. I guess I could have gotten nasty with him but he was a nice guy and I just let it go and changed my pace of play to match his. One thing I won't do is let him join us again,,lol!!!!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

You can play as fast as you want, or you can play when you want.  To expect both is greedy and unrealistic, IMO.  There are times when your local is playing fast, and they will probably, except once in a while, be at about the same time every day.  Play then.  If you want to play on Saturday mornings, quite complaining.   Thats the price for being able to play Saturday mornings.

I don't think that's greedy or unrealistic.

If everyone moves along at a good speed, nobody's inconvenienced. You might have the occasional backup from lost balls and such, but then those players can play faster, get back into their slot within a hole or so, and it evens out.

I think calling it greedy and unrealistic simply excuses rude, slow players who are inconsiderate of others.

4 hours should be an average pace of play, period. Some rounds will be 3:30, some will be 4:30. But 5:00 should almost never happen and 6:00 should earn you a refund.

I played in a threesome the other day at Green Oaks after a course rating seminar. We waited almost every hole on the front nine, but finished in 1:55. On the back nine we waited the last six holes, but finished it in 1:10.

[ev780]

Its a slow day in the office today so lets have some fun with math.

4 hour round = 240 minutes

Lets say that the all four players shoot 85.

240 / 4 = 60 minutes per player

60 minutes  / 85 strokes = .71 minutes.

So 45 seconds to play each shot and that includes all ancillary time like travelling to the next shot, looking for a lost ball, lighting a cigar, buying a beer from the cart girl, actually enjoying the day, etc.  Even though there is some overlap between playes, it sure seems fast to me! Then again maybe I am slow.

So if you are shooting 100 the number drops to nearly 30 seconds.  Even par?  You have almost the full minute.  I would really love for a scientific type to do some real time and motion studies on the golf course and set us some realistic expectations.  "Speed it up"  does not feed the bulldog for me when we really don't know how long a round should take other than ADD types screaming at us!

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by ev780

Its a slow day in the office today so lets have some fun with math.

4 hour round = 240 minutes

Lets say that the all four players shoot 85.

240 / 4 = 60 minutes per player

60 minutes  / 85 strokes = .71 minutes.

So 45 seconds to play each shot and that includes all ancillary time like travelling to the next shot, looking for a lost ball, lighting a cigar, buying a beer from the cart girl, actually enjoying the day, etc.  Even though there is some overlap between playes, it sure seems fast to me! Then again maybe I am slow.

So if you are shooting 100 the number drops to nearly 30 seconds.  Even par?  You have almost the full minute.  I would really love for a scientific type to do some real time and motion studies on the golf course and set us some realistic expectations.  "Speed it up"  does not feed the bulldog for me when we really don't know how long a round should take other than ADD types screaming at us!

Slow day at the office or not, I'm guessing that you're not a mathematician.......

The round takes four hours, but that doesn't break down to one hour per player.  They play, travel, buy beer, and even light cigars somewhat simultaneously.  Each does all that including their individual 85 strokes in the same 4 hour period, not separately.  That puts them just shy of 3 minutes per stroke.  Factor out tap in putts and other strokes that naturally come in quick succession and you're well over 3 minutes per stroke.

If anyone is spending even 1 full minute per stroke on average to get a yardage, choose a club, and pull the trigger, you're likely going to be ready to cut your own throat before you're through the front nine.  But let's call it that anyway and pull out 85 minutes for the actual strokes.  That leaves us 155 minutes......2.6 hours.  For a 6500 yard golf course, let's factor in a 25% because we're not walking straight line distances (at least my game doesn't allow me to)  and we find that we actually travel somewhere in the neighborhood of 8100 yds.  That means that we're moseying along at a pace of about 50 yards per minute.  Not really breakneck speed even for an old guy like me......

......and that's walking, not in a cart.

Bottom line, a decent 4-some can get around in well under 4 hours pretty easily.  A really fast one, 3 hours without killing themselves.  All assuming that they're not held up by play in front of them.......but that's the rub, one slow group will back up an entire course.

[bplewis24]

I played in an NCGA net amateur qualifier a couple weeks ago.  They space each grouping 10 minutes apart, which means you aren't waiting on virtually any holes unless there is a lost ball or something out of the ordinary.  The NCGA rules official that was overseeing my group said that we should finish in no more than 4:30, and I think there may have been some penalties if we fell too far behind that pace, but I don't remember.

What I DO remember, is that he specifically said, "2 weeks ago we had a Senior Amateur tourney and the average finish time was 4:15.  So if they can do it, I know you guys can."

Brandon

[ev780]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Slow day at the office or not, I'm guessing that you're not a mathematician.......

The round takes four hours, but that doesn't break down to one hour per player.  They play, travel, buy beer, and even light cigars somewhat simultaneously.  Each does all that including their individual 85 strokes in the same 4 hour period, not separately.  That puts them just shy of 3 minutes per stroke.  Factor out tap in putts and other strokes that naturally come in quick succession and you're well over 3 minutes per stroke.

If anyone is spending even 1 full minute per stroke on average to get a yardage, choose a club, and pull the trigger, you're likely going to be ready to cut your own throat before you're through the front nine.  But let's call it that anyway and pull out 85 minutes for the actual strokes.  That leaves us 155 minutes......2.6 hours.  For a 6500 yard golf course, let's factor in a 25% because we're not walking straight line distances (at least my game doesn't allow me to)  and we find that we actually travel somewhere in the neighborhood of 8100 yds.  That means that we're moseying along at a pace of about 50 yards per minute.  Not really breakneck speed even for an old guy like me......

......and that's walking, not in a cart.

Bottom line, a decent 4-some can get around in well under 4 hours pretty easily.  A really fast one, 3 hours without killing themselves.  All assuming that they're not held up by play in front of them.......but that's the rub, one slow group will back up an entire course.

I did acknowledge the simultaneous nature of some of the activities.  Yeah the travel is a biggie that I did not take into account.  (the office wasn't that slow ;)  )  But I really would like to see some real time and motion studies.  Only because I am curious.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Some golfers are slow players because they are self-centered and inconsiderate. There are people, though, and you know a few, who are not in any way like that, but they are just slow. They do everything slowly. They live life slowly. There is no hurrying them up, because that's not the way their mind works. Not sure how to solve that problem on the course.

[Yukari]

I just got back playing 18.  I went out as a single and got paired up with three GOMERS (thats, "Get Out of My ER", a slang for senior citizens--no offense intended).  Anyway, they moved as slow as molasses.  Good grief!  I played with seniors many times, and most were very fast.  Hit down the middle of fairway and take another shot.

But these three...  OMG!  They thought they had all the time in the world!  One guy actually stood still for about 20 to 30 seconds over the ball before taking a swing.  I thought he fell asleep or worse had died!

Very frustrating.  Completely took me out of my rhythm.  Shot 87 at 69/126 course rating. Ugh!

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Yukari

I thought he fell asleep or worse had died!

lol

[RGoosen]

Originally Posted by Yukari

But these three...  OMG!  They thought they had all the time in the world!  One guy actually stood still for about 20 to 30 seconds over the ball before taking a swing.  I thought he fell asleep or worse had died!

Tee Time 6:30 am Saturday!

Now I don't have to worry about dead people getting in my way.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by RGoosen

Tee Time 6:30 am Saturday!

Now I don't have to worry about dead people getting in my way.

Or you could just do what I did today, and golf in a downpour. That's why I make sure to always pack a waterproof windshirt and an umbrella in my bag, because it only adds a few pounds to protect against Colorado weather unpredictability. Started out sunny, ended up pouring, and I got the back nine for free because of it :)

Surprisingly, I shot my personal best of 75 in the weather, mostly because wet greens make any approach shot stick, not just fairway shots.

[Motley01]

What if he really did die, that would be crazy. You keep yelling at him, come on you $@#$#@$!$, hit the ball already. You walk over, and touch him, and he's already cold. Weirded out now...

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Motley01

What if he really did die, that would be crazy. You keep yelling at him, come on you $@#$#@$!$, hit the ball already. You walk over, and touch him, and he's already cold. Weirded out now...

Question is, does his playing partner even notice?

[bplewis24]

Holy balls.  Talk about slow play?  I'm watching a recording of the 2002 US Open replay, and watching Sergio Garcia stand over the ball re-gripping for 35 seconds on each shot is mind-numbing.

Brandon

[Motley01]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Holy balls.  Talk about slow play?  I'm watching a recording of the 2002 US Open replay, and watching Sergio Garcia stand over the ball re-gripping for 35 seconds on each shot is mind-numbing.

Brandon

Oh I know, I just watched the replay on TGC too yesterday. Here we thought Kevin Na had a problem. I almost forgot about Sergio. But after Jack had a talk with him, he seemed to clear it up pretty quickly.