Slow Play

[DocWu1948]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I might consider taking some of these people up to a par 3 course for recreation/practice, but I wouldn't take them to a full length course to play with me.  There's just no way.

Organize an afternoon outing at a par 3 and get your boss to approve it as a training/teamwork session. That's how I got into golf 11 years ago when our whole group went out and half of us were hacks.  We did have to pay our own green fees and buy our own refreshments.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by DocWu1948

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I might consider taking some of these people up to a par 3 course for recreation/practice, but I wouldn't take them to a full length course to play with me.  There's just no way.

Organize an afternoon outing at a par 3 and get your boss to approve it as a training/teamwork session. That's how I got into golf 11 years ago when our whole group went out and half of us were hacks.  We did have to pay our own green fees and buy our own refreshments.

I agree. Everybody has to start somewhere. Sounds like an opportunity to earn some brownie points.

[RGoosen]

Sorry if someone has said this before (I wasn't going to read 11 full pages of posts)...

The misconception from slower players is that faster players are " in a hurry " and that they should be glad that they are on a golf course.  The quote I hear all the time is " why do you look forward to playing golf on the weekend, only the rush through it. "  This may sound good in theory, but not reality.

Do people like standing in line 45 minutes for a ride at Disney, just b/c they are at Disney?  Do people like waiting around Fri/Sat. night for table at dinner for 30-45 minutes, just because they are not at home eating a TV dinner?

I know that I am probably impatient by nature (ADD and type A personality), but I want to spend between 3 1/2 - 4 hours hitting golf balls...NOT pacing the fairway back and forth waiting for the local Kevin Na that takes 15 practice swings or the guy on the green that wants to back of a putt five times like Jim Furyk.

Ideally I could play two consecutive rounds in 6 hours and not have to wait around to hit.  This will never be reality...just a dream.  I want the spend the 4 hours specifically hitting balls.  So I have to make accomidations by doing the following:

1) I never make a tee time later than 8:30  (slow players should play later in the day after the course is already "backed up").  I usually tee off between 6:30-7:30 if possible.

2) I pass groups that are not going at a least a four hour place.  (If they can't take the hint, I'm not shy about calling the clubhouse or talking to the marshall)  On occasion I will play a course where "foursomes have the priority" (who in the slow playing idot that made this rule!!!)  I  usually get my way one way or another - a) I pace the fairway back and forth to make the people uncomfortable for not letting me play through  b) tell the marshall that a round of golf shouldn't take four hours and that I will complain to every member of the staff in the clubhouse when I get done  c) sometimes I'll sit the fairway with my legs crossed looking impatient

I saw somewhere on here that someone was hitting into a slow group...I would never ever hit into a group under any circumstances.  The closest I came to being rude was on the RTJ golf trail.  We were a twosome and had intentions of playing 27 holes and then driving home 5 hours away.  There was a foursome holding up the whole course on our second nine.  We initially were playing at 4 1/2 hour pace for 27 holes and the foursome wouldn't let us play through.  We timed their pace of play and it was at least 5 1/2 hours. So we skipped a hole and drove through the fairway beside them as they were addressing their ball.  We didn't consider it any more rude than they were being the 50 other groups the rest of the day that were not going to tee off on time due to them.

[DocPangloss]

Originally Posted by RGoosen

I know that I am probably impatient by nature (ADD and type A personality), but I want to spend between 3 1/2 - 4 hours hitting golf balls...NOT pacing the fairway back and forth waiting for the local Kevin Na that takes 15 practice swings or the guy on the green that wants to back of a putt five times like Jim Furyk.

Well at least you are aware of how much of a douchebag you are.

[RGoosen]

Originally Posted by DocPangloss

Well at least you are aware of how much of a douchebag you are.

Thanks :)

[dak4n6]

I absolutely can't stand slow play, and I think people who play golf for recreation and enjoyment should be abolished from playing. When I play, my #1 priority is to finish as fast as possible. For me anything over 3 hrs for 18 is intolerable.  Walking should never be allowed. And they should make golf carts go faster so that I can be sitting next to my ball waiting 5 seconds after I hit it instead of the agonizing 20 seconds that it currently takes. Plus, people that suck should not be allowed to play. Why should I have to wait for you because you're always searching for your ball, you worhtless POS? Don't you realize you're taking up my time?! How dare you.. It's the same with everything I do. When I go fishing, I don't want to be sitting there all day doing something that I love. I get in, take a few casts, and go home. That's the way it should be done.

So, I have been playing golf for about 25 years, and I can't recall when this emphasis on fast play started taking over. I can remember insanly crowded sundays where I would wait 1 hour to tee off, and then play a 5 hour round totally backed up, and no one really cared.  I think that the Tiger effect and the fact that courses need the volume to stay in business are the real drivers of the current fast play craze

Yesterday I played a 4 hour round, and yeah it was a little slow here and there, but so what?  The really annoying part, however, was that we were hit into 3 times by one of those groups made of guys who thought they were really good, and should be playing a 3 hour round. They were hitting from the blues, but usually when I looked back they were scattered all over the course - left, right, short, and maybe one ball down the middle. We had a solid wall of 4somes in front of us, but these jackasses thought they were entitled to hit into us. Once was on a  green, and then there were back to back drives each landing 5 or 10 feet from us. This then caused us to go ahead and hit into the group in front of us on the green to get out of the line of fire.

Golf is becoming a pressure-packed high stress activity. I think I might start working more just to take my mind off of golf...

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I think that the Tiger effect and the fact that courses need the volume to stay in business are the real drivers of the current fast play craze

Elaborate, please.

Brandon

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Elaborate, please.

Brandon

The Tiger Effect: the exponential increase in the numbers of very unskilled players coming out to play. I really noticed this in the early 2000's. Yet I don't hold a grudge, I think it's kind of entertaining seeing them out there.

The Economy: these are tough times - margins are razor thin, costs are increasing, hence volume and throughput must be increased.

[JCoop]

I don't suppose that animosity towards new, lesser skilled players is going to do much for the future of the game, eh?

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I absolutely can't stand slow play, and I think people who play golf for recreation and enjoyment should be abolished from playing. When I play, my #1 priority is to finish as fast as possible. For me anything over 3 hrs for 18 is intolerable.  Walking should never be allowed. And they should make golf carts go faster so that I can be sitting next to my ball waiting 5 seconds after I hit it instead of the agonizing 20 seconds that it currently takes. Plus, people that suck should not be allowed to play. Why should I have to wait for you because you're always searching for your ball, you worhtless POS? Don't you realize you're taking up my time?! How dare you.. It's the same with everything I do. When I go fishing, I don't want to be sitting there all day doing something that I love. I get in, take a few casts, and go home. That's the way it should be done.

So, I have been playing golf for about 25 years, and I can't recall when this emphasis on fast play started taking over. I can remember insanly crowded sundays where I would wait 1 hour to tee off, and then play a 5 hour round totally backed up, and no one really cared.  I think that the Tiger effect and the fact that courses need the volume to stay in business are the real drivers of the current fast play craze

Yesterday I played a 4 hour round, and yeah it was a little slow here and there, but so what?  The really annoying part, however, was that we were hit into 3 times by one of those groups made of guys who thought they were really good, and should be playing a 3 hour round. They were hitting from the blues, but usually when I looked back they were scattered all over the course - left, right, short, and maybe one ball down the middle. We had a solid wall of 4somes in front of us, but these jackasses thought they were entitled to hit into us. Once was on a  green, and then there were back to back drives each landing 5 or 10 feet from us. This then caused us to go ahead and hit into the group in front of us on the green to get out of the line of fire.

Golf is becoming a pressure-packed high stress activity. I think I might start working more just to take my mind off of golf...

I've never been one to think it's ok to rocket their ball back to them, but by the 3rd time they hit into me , I wouldn't have any problem rocketing one of their balls into the woods, especially since after the 2nd time, Id've waited on the tee to let them know they were hitting into me.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

The Tiger Effect: the exponential increase in the numbers of very unskilled players coming out to play. I really noticed this in the early 2000's. Yet I don't hold a grudge, I think it's kind of entertaining seeing them out there.

The Economy: these are tough times - margins are razor thin, costs are increasing, hence volume and throughput must be increased.

Those things don't sound like "drivers of the fast play craze."  They sound like reasons for increasingly slow play.  Wanting to eliminate slow play isn't the same as wanting to play speed golf.

Brandon

[sean_miller]

Slow play exists because slow people are slow and rude people are rude.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Those things don't sound like "drivers of the fast play craze."  They sound like reasons for increasingly slow play.  Wanting to eliminate slow play isn't the same as wanting to play speed golf.

Brandon

That's what I meant. The Tiger effect increases slow play, which means courses can't get the throughput they need, which drives the need for faster play.

Hey, I don't love slow play either, and can get a little frustrated by it, but I think it can get carried away like when you get hit into, or get 1/2 a hole out of position and have a ranger breathing down your neck.

[johnclayton1982]

I never get this debate.  To the guy who wants to play fast, unless your courses are very different from the ones I play on, you can play as fast as you want.  On Wend. afternoon about 330 pm, I can usually play 18 in just over three hours.  If you want to play at peak times, prepare to be slow.

You can play as fast as you want, or you can play when you want.  To expect both is greedy and unrealistic, IMO.  There are times when your local is playing fast, and they will probably, except once in a while, be at about the same time every day.  Play then.  If you want to play on Saturday mornings, quite complaining.   Thats the price for being able to play Saturday mornings.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I never get this debate.  To the guy who wants to play fast, unless your courses are very different from the ones I play on, you can play as fast as you want.  On Wend. afternoon about 330 pm, I can usually play 18 in just over three hours.  If you want to play at peak times, prepare to be slow.

You can play as fast as you want, or you can play when you want.  To expect both is greedy and unrealistic, IMO.  There are times when your local is playing fast, and they will probably, except once in a while, be at about the same time every day.  Play then.  If you want to play on Saturday mornings, quite complaining.   Thats the price for being able to play Saturday mornings.

Slow play is not a new phenomenon. There used to be unwritten rules that quicker players played the earliest times regardless of the day of the week. Maybe this was just a local custom, but if you teed off before 08:30 and held up play you were not able to get those times any time soon.

There are some players who take quick play to the extreme and have unrealitic expetations like the big crybaby who sat cross legged in the fairway, but there are FAR FAR MORE slow people who have a sense of entitlement and think that anyone who booked a later time than them can sit and wait while they play as slow as they please. I see this rude behaviour quite often at my club and it's just one of the reasons why so many players fled to River Bend this year - slow play and rude sense of entitlement behaviour from clueless hackers - equal distribution of relatively new players and seasoned veterans.

Regarding choosing to play at different times, it's a nice theory, but when you're playing as a single and there's a single or twosome in front who won't let you play through, you either have to skip a hole or contact a marshal, or wait on their every move. All someone has to do is wait a couple minutes then waive a faster player through, but no way, they got there first!!!

[RGoosen]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

There are some players who take quick play to the extreme and have unrealitic expetations like the big crybaby who sat cross legged in the fairway, but there are FAR FAR MORE slow people who have a sense of entitlement and think that anyone who booked a later time than them can sit and wait while they play as slow as they please. I see this rude behaviour quite often at my club and it's just one of the reasons why so many players fled to River Bend this year - slow play and rude sense of entitlement behaviour from clueless hackers - equal distribution of relatively new players and seasoned veterans.

Regarding choosing to play at different times, it's a nice theory, but when you're playing as a single and there's a single or twosome in front who won't let you play through, you either have to skip a hole or contact a marshal, or wait on their every move. All someone has to do is wait a couple minutes then waive a faster player through, but no way, they got there first!!!

1)  It sounds like you guys agree with me more than you let on.  I really don't have a problem with slow or fast players.  To me it is a non-issue.  If slow players (by slow I mean playing slower than the pace of play) let faster groups play through, then in my mind everyone wins.

2)  The only time I do the pacing is...

- If the group can't play at the pace of play for the course

- T hey have had ample time to let us through (3 or more holes of waiting)

- It is obvious that they are the group holding everyone up (sometimes the group immediately in front of you is not the offender)

- And they won't let you through and the marshall won't do anything about it

If and only if all these criteria are met do I have a right to pace the fairway.  Yes...I would be a crybaby if I made a tee time in the middle of the day on Saturday and tried to bully my way through a bunch of groups in order to play in under 4 hours.  You guys may disagree with me, but I don't like the arrogance or selfishness of anyone that would make an early tee time, yet they want to play over the pace of play (usually more than 4 hrs and 15 minutes) and expect the entire tee sheet of players wait on them without letting groups that are playing on time go through.

*  Please tell me there are some logical people on this board???

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by RGoosen

If and only if all these criteria are met do I have a right to pace the fairway.

What does this mean?  I'm clueless here.  What does "pacing the fairway" accomplish?

Brandon

[RGoosen]

Originally Posted by RGoosen

1)  It sounds like you guys agree with me more than you let on.  I really don't have a problem with slow or fast players.  To me it is a non-issue.  If slow players (by slow I mean playing slower than the pace of play) let faster groups play through, then in my mind everyone wins.

*  Please tell me there are some logical people on this board???

Originally Posted by bplewis24

What does this mean?  I'm clueless here.  What does "pacing the fairway" accomplish?

Brandon

It is a non-issue...

If slow players allow groups to play through if they are truly holding up the golf course...everyone wins.