The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Keep It Simple]

If S&T was good enough for Ben Hogan.........

I was using S&T for a while with great results. Most notably was the distance I was getting. When I switched to a new driver, S&T wasn't giving me the right spin rate anymore. I kept the stacked concept but now swing the club on a slightly steeper plane. I lost a little overall distance but gained some carry, draw the ball a little less and find the swing to be more comfortable. I carried this over to my irons with the same results.

[Vance87]

A little update...picked up the book a couple days ago and went through the motions in my living room. It's been raining since I got it but today I could finally go out to the range. Let me say, I believe this swing works. I've never felt so comfortable in a swing before, and the results were awesome. I was drawing the ball in about 5 minutes, when I normally play a big fade which turns into a slice with the driver at times. More to come I'm sure...

[uttexas]

I'm half way through "The Stack and Tilt Swing". So far, so good (purchased on overstock.com) The DVDs from stackandtilt.com are on my Christmas list.

[walk18]

Had my first S&T range session, a couple observations: my ballstriking was definitely improved, no more fat shots (something i had been fighting earlier). The swing feels more natural than my old swing ever did. Even the Driver was much straighter, although interestingly i was hitting a nice little baby fade, which is a great go to shot. I'm convinced.

I do take issue with it being labeled "a revolutionary new swing" or anything radical like that. Many great players have been stacked over the ball for decades, as evidenced by older photos of Palmer and many others. I'd call it a simple, classic swing. I wish spring was here so I could take this to the course.

[Hoselrockets]

Well what catches my eye is that this is supose to help with better ball striking, I tend to hit many shots fat and often I feel that I don't get my weight back to my left leg? I think I'm going to give this some serious thought. More feedback would be great to read about.

[rudygu]

I've been incorporating S&T elements into my swing for a few weeks with great success. I'd like to pick up the book to help ensure that I go about that correctly, but I can't decide on a format... Has anyone here bought the Kindle version for use with the iPhone?It seems to me that it would be convenient for reference on the course/range, but not all books of this nature translate well to that format.

[uttexas]

I'm a month in playing S&T.; Shot my best S&T round yesterday--80. The preconceived notions that S&T only works for short irons and younger players are not valid.
S&T has worked best for me with the driver (hitting the drives longer and staighter--missed one fairway yesterday--short game was off) I hit all the clubs in the bag better with S&T.; I'm still struggeling to get some feel with my new swing, which is expected at this point (hitting a 70% PW, etc with S&T)

[kfowler]

I've been incorporating S&T elements into my swing for a few weeks with great success. I'd like to pick up the book to help ensure that I go about that correctly, but I can't decide on a format... Has anyone here bought the Kindle version for use with the iPhone?It seems to me that it would be convenient for reference on the course/range, but not all books of this nature translate well to that format.

I bought the Kindle version for the PC. Not sure how it translates to the regular Kindle. One thing that's a little annoying is that the captions for the pics don't always point to the right pic. Easy to figure out though. I hind sight, I probably should have bought the paper version. I may still pick one up as soon as the prices go down.

[limoric]

Wow! I heard about it, but paid no attention until I became glued to this thread. I'm a pretty good study of the swing and was able to replicate the stack and tilt (at least the basic movement) in my living room. I attached my Medicus PowerMeter (swing speed gage) to my 5 iron to see if there was a difference in swing speed. I was consistently swinging 5 MPH faster...77 to 82. The biggest difference I noticed was bigger shoulder turn and bigger hip turn. I felt much less resistance in the shoulder turn, this is where I'm loosing all my power. This is pretty exciting...my biggest impediment to lowering my handicap to low single digit is my long iron game. I can only hit a 5 iron 160-170 yard (sea level). I have no power in my long irons. If i can learn to stretch my 5 iron to 185 and 4 iron 195 or so, this will double my GIR, I just can't get there in 2 on most long par 4's (from tips).

I can see where the high handicappers are having trouble with this swing. I agree with many others, you have to be able to understand swing mechanics a bit better. When I started playing golf 7/8 years ago, I was the typical pull slice and had no idea why. Now I don't even remember how I did it (I do, but it's hard to replicate ), I have to work to pull off a fade with my irons, draw is much easier as I take the club inside naturally now.

Biggest advice I would give the higher handicappers is to buy a momentus 5 iron (the heavy short 5 iron), when i first started swinging it 3 years ago, my brain just clicked, you can't swing that club with your arms, you have to bring your shoulders and hips into play, it forces you to clear your hips. It also brings the arms inside, it's hard to go outside in with that thing. Now that i think about it, the stack and tilt feels very similar to working with this club, only before I had no clue...

[kfowler]

I filmed myself in the living room for the first time trying SnT last night. I tried it at the range last weekend with some positive results. I'm about half way through the books so still working to understand the concepts.

Some comments on what I saw:

- Lag seemed better. However I really need to see it while hitting a ball.
- Plane was much better. Really stayed on plane a lot more.
- No rising up during the back swing. It appeared I stayed much more centered over the ball. I can see what they mean by the shoulder center point staying fixed.
- For all the six swings, I brushed the carpet on a much more consistent basis.
- Felt much more powerful. Almost too much. It almost puts you in the position to want to kill the ball. Interesting feeling.
- I'm not sure I'm bringing my hands in far enough. They're certainly inside but not like Charlie Wi. They don't quite pass through the belt line. Club head was still in line with hands at parallel which was good.
- Don't think I've quite got down the straightening of the legs and "launching" them during the downswing.
- Getting good lateral slide but not sure it's quite enough.

I'll hit the range this weekend and see what the results are.

[david_wedzik]

I filmed myself in the living room for the first time trying SnT last night. I tried it at the range last weekend with some positive results. I'm about half way through the books so still working to understand the concepts.

There are many things you CAN practice inside like this (or in front of mirror) and some you can't. The things I would caution you on and say that the feedback won't really be helpful would be:

Lag Downswing plane launching or jumping through impact The reason I say that is that these things are more dynamic than the others and many things change when a ball is in the equation and you reach certain "speeds", along with tension, etc. in the motion. That said you can get a lot out of working on: Hand path Backswing plane Even where your club contacts the ground. Though that is more dynamic you can get the "feeling" for the "difference" b/w what you were doing and the stack and tilt motion (it is in this portion of your inside work that you can also feel how much more forward the hips need to be - this will change somewhat in swing motion w/ ball but again you can get a feeling for the major difference). Hope this helps. Dave

[kfowler]

Dave - There's one thing I've learned is when you actually put a ball infront of someone the mind can do some really funny things. So I agree.

[verse214]

OK - so i started lessons with a new pro at a fitness gym i joined and while reviewing my swing he stopped it halfway in the downswing and pointed out that it could be used as a poster for S&T when viewed down the line (He is not an S&T pro neither does he claim to know much about it). When viewed "face on" you can see my spine is tilted towards the target which is what he wants me to eliminate; I need to stay more centered over the ball. Earlier in this thread, it's been stated that "true" S&T does not promote a tilt towards the target and that you stay "centered" over the ball. OK... so:

I've read through most of this thread and other threads here that discuss stack and tilt and honestly, it's gotten to the point where descriptions of what S&T are sound exactly like what a "normal" swing's characteristics are.

Can someone please post a picture of what a non-S&T swing looks like at the top of the backswing? Because it doesn't seem like there's such a thing as a "non ST" swing anymore based on the way all the S&Ters; are describing it.

[david_wedzik]

OK... so:

One of the things I try to explain to SnT naysayers is that we are not describing radical changes. In answer to your question many of the best players display many of these principles without "trying" - that is likely why at times things seem similar. That said...there are many top players and teachers out there still teaching and portraying things like I have noted in this photo. Dave

Attachment 2142 In fairness to Phil this is much better: Attachment 2144

[i-Guy]

David,

I am an 8 handicap and had heard all these negative things about the S&T; so stayed away but it always seem to make sense to me in theory when I would read about it and I would even play around with it at the range sometimes but I would always go back to what my instructor (traditional swing) and I were working on...anyway one day at the range with my instructor I was hitting terrible and I said to him "watch I can S&T; and hit it better then that" and did my own version (without reading the book or watching the DVD) and just ripped about ten 7 irons in a row 170 yards with a penetrating ball flight right at the target. I stopped and looked at him after the tenth swing and he had this puzzled look on his face and was just staring at the ground where I had been hitting the ball...then all of sudden snapped out of it and said "No...You don't want to do that. Let’s get back to what we were working on". Well I left this coach a few months later and went to a more prominent coach in Orlando and continued to struggle with the concepts of the traditional swing...after my last lesson, the next day I read this little article in Golf Digest (two pager describing the 6 basic moves of the S&T;) and after struggling at the range working on what we had just worked on the day before I said "what the heck" I am going to try the S&T...I; proceeded to hit the ball more consistently then I have ever done before and even ripped my 3 wood off the tee to the end of the driving range over and over...so now I am hooked on the S&T; ... I have played two rounds with the S&T; and shot 80 both times (remember I have only been using the S&T; for three weeks)...my ball striking was way more consistent and target oriented then it has ever been before...if my short game would have been just a little more consistent on both days (three putted three times, etc...) I would have shot near par.

I purchased the DVD and I am into the 2nd disc but I am having a problem on the range and maybe you could give me a little guidance as follows:

My misses are balls that either start at the target and then draw left or start a little left and keep going left as opposed to the ball starting a little right of the target with a slight draw or just simply flying straight when I feel like I have made a good S&T; move. What do you think I am doing wrong that causes my misses?

Thanks and keep promoting this swing as it can help a lot of people… )

[uttexas]

i-Guy, I had similar experiences with my instructor (he's a good instructor for the commonly taught two plane swing---which just isn't for me)

My guess, is that you should work on hitting the ball with the arms extended more, then you'll see the push draw come back.

[iacas]

Well I left this coach a few months later...

It took you a few months? I think I'd have been gone in seconds.

My misses are balls that either start at the target and then draw left or start a little left and keep going left as opposed to the ball starting a little right of the target with a slight draw or just simply flying straight when I feel like I have made a good S&T; move. What do you think I am doing wrong that causes my misses?

Where do you line up the clubface? The stock shot is a push draw and S&T; asks that your clubface be lined up just a little right of the target. If you hit it straight at the target then the clubface wasn't slightly open at impact like they prefer.

[bpolunin]

I had such a funny experience just a couple hours ago.
I went into PGA superstore earlier to get my driver reshafted (need a little more distance) and I was worming up using S&T with my 7 iron. I only been practicing S&T for about 2 week. So the Pro comes over to do the driver and looks at my swing and says "How in the world are you hitting the ball that way. Why are most of your weight on the left foot?".
Then she says, " You should be able to lift off the left foot off the ground on the back swing so you need to transfer your weight to right foot and then left."
So she took my 7 iron and tried to show me the right swing. All her shots were nice and straight at about 155 yards average.
So then I took my club back and said, "Watch".
I took about 5 shots with her swing and then took about 5 shots using S&T.; All 5 shots using S&T were right at target line and about 170-180 yards vs. 155-160 with her swing.
So, I told her about the S&T and she was very surprised and said she will be switching over :).
Funny that I can teach the Pro at the store how to swing to get better, crisper, and straighter shot :).