The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Stretch]

That's sometimes 90% of the battle - finding the right sensations that work for you.

I'm still looking for them! Just can't seem to make the brain-body connection that will get my club back on the right line. The infuriating thing is I can make a really decent practice swing and then when I take a cut at the ball -- keeping all the same corrective thoughts in mind and

feeling like I'm doing the exact same things -- I actually end up laying the club off too much as usual. And if it wasn't for video I wouldn't even know it! I feel like I can't trust what I feel. Doesn't count: Does count: Bollocks.

[damnitdave]

What i have been told with the left knee is that it works 2 inches towards the toes, and two inches back

[Stu.C]

Why am I not drawing the ball? All these shots stayed straight:(

I'm guessing not enough hip slide and, especially on the first iron shot, my head is trying to follow the ball.




Any feedback much appreciated.

[iacas]

Stu, get a DTL view and look at the angle of your shoulders at the top of your backswing. You're going to find that they're incredibly flat - nearly horizontal. There's a lot going on, but basically, you're not catching the balls on the back side of the circle and your hands likely aren't gaining the true depth they need. Yes, the hip's a part of it, but you need to work on turning your shoulders in a more perfect circle (on a plane) first.

[Stretch]

OK, this might get me in trouble, but today I spent an hour or so screwing around with Brian Manzella's Soft Draw Pattern alongside my S&T; swing. Seems to me there's quite a bit of common ground -- hands in deep, step on the left foot to initiate the downswing, big lateral hip move -- but he actually wants you to let the right elbow come out and get the shaft across the line at the top, which is exactly the kind of exaggerated feel I'm trying to create to fight my natural tendency to lay off.

Have to say, it's a very easy way to hit a golf ball and certainly does what it says on the tin, produces a nice draw that just turns over lazily to the target. Better shape, in fact, than I can consistently produce with S&T;, where I'm still stuck on the front of the circle. What you (I) don't get with it right off the bat is that pinpoint low point, but I did definitely find myself more in plane afterward when going back to the S&T; pattern.

Hopefully more good than harm was done.

[iacas]

OK, this might get me in trouble, but today I spent an hour or so screwing around with Brian Manzella's Soft Draw Pattern alongside my S&T; swing. Seems to me there's quite a bit of common ground -- hands in deep, step on the left foot to initiate the downswing, big lateral hip move -- but he actually wants you to let the right elbow come out and get the shaft across the line at the top, which is exactly the kind of exaggerated feel I'm trying to create to fight my natural tendency to lay off.

You're not necessarily laid off quite as much as you think. Dave will talk about it more in your evolvr lessons, but the big thing for you is going to be pushing forward. You come over the ball slightly right now.

And your clubs are still way too short or something.

[Stu.C]

Stu, get a DTL view and look at the angle of your shoulders at the top of your backswing. You're going to find that they're incredibly flat - nearly horizontal. There's a lot going on, but basically, you're not catching the balls on the back side of the circle and your hands likely aren't gaining the true depth they need. Yes, the hip's a part of it, but you need to work on turning your shoulders in a more perfect circle (on a plane) first.

Thanks Erik. The more I look at this video of myself the more faults I see, like you said "There's a lot going on".

I started on this swing using forums and Youtube, until I got the book, now with video I can see that some of the things I thought I was doing, I'm not; and some of the things I didn't think I was doing, I am. Back to the drawing board I guess. I had a look at the 'Charlie Wi Hitting all the Positions' video for a DTL model and will work on copying him and post another video ( I'll wear a different coloured shirt than him so you don't get us mixed up )

[bustaone]

Hopefully easy question...
Considering your belt to be 12oclock and your spine to be 6oclock, which direction should you be 'stacking'? 9oclock?or more like 1030? Or just simply towards the target?

[iacas]

Hopefully easy question...

Stacked = on top of one another.

The purpose of the backswing is to maintain the relationship between the upper and lower centers as being stacked - on top of each other. Not towards the target or 9 o'clock.

[Stretch]

Dave Wedzik gave me something to think about that is proving useful. I have been breaking my left knee in too far on the backswing, as illustrated below. He now has me setting up with my knees bent more and rotated more outwards -- and then concentrating on adding flexion toward the left toe as more weight shifts to the left foot. The knee still needs to come in a bit, but now we're talking a few inches rather than all the way back behind the ball. I'm still kinda processing all the effects, but it's clearly helping me in a number of areas.

--

[Stretch]

Quick hit. How do you get your hips sliding more and spinning less? For me, consciously trying to push forward seems to trigger them to whip open, with predictably nasty effects.

[iacas]

Quick hit. How do you get your hips sliding more and spinning less? For me, consciously trying to push forward seems to trigger them to whip open, with predictably nasty effects.

This is one of the toughest things to get. That said, there are a number of feelings that can help you to push the hips forward.

Maintain flex in the left knee and push it forward. Tuck your butt underneath you. Get your belt buckle ahead of your left ankle. Roll your left ankle. Bank your right knee. Expand the left side of your chest. And a few others.

[Hollister]

... Expand the left side of your chest. And a few others.

Erik, I am all ears. Expand the left side of your chest is - feeling-wise - new to me. Think I'll try that.

[MMouse]

I tried the swing last year and put it aside until the past month or so.

Since trying it out again I have had flashes of brilliance with it, and then have seen it all apart.

I'm a little uncomfortable with beginning my down swing. My hips are turning to the point where I am turning on the whole swing and on the worst ones I am going way way left.

Any thoughts or tips on starting the downswing? I've tried a few things and nothing feels right yet.

[iacas]

I'm a little uncomfortable with beginning my down swing. My hips are turning to the point where I am turning on the whole swing and on the worst ones I am going way way left.

Can you tell us what you think should happen on the downswing, and what feeling you're currently using?

[MMouse]

Right now I am working it as pushing my left hip back and forward to straighten my hips out and begin sliding them along the target line or slightly open to it.

I was working on mostly the feeling out of the left hip but changed it to my right foot and knee today.
I think I've been turning on the ball of my right foot and liftin the heel prior to contact. In light of these I've begun working on feeling my right foot roll over to the inside of itslf.

I have yet to use the swing with my driver as my drives have bee fantastic for me this year.
With stack and tilt, does the ball get placed in thecenter of the stance with the driver or is it still more forward ?

[CarSB]

This is one of the toughest things to get. That said, there are a number of feelings that can help you to push the hips forward.

Hi, I've been lurking on this site for a while and have been trying to incorporate some SnT principles in my current swing. The hands-in, weight-centered backswing feels very stable but I'm unclear on the downswing.

I'm trying to get the hip-forward move down. My misses have been dead pulls or push-fades, so I'm guessing I'm not pushing out enough to allow the club to hit the ball on its way out. At the top of the backswing, the right leg straightens and the left is bent a few degrees more than in address (banking slightly inwards, or closer to the ball). On the downswing, I feel the left knee straightening, while at the same time I'm trying to aggressively push out with the hips. Instead, should the left knee bend/bank outwards on the downswing, pushing the left knee then hips in front the left foot? I guess, visually, this would look like a squatting move.

[Stretch]

On the downswing, I feel the left knee straightening, while at the same time I'm trying to aggressively push out with the hips. Instead, should the left knee bend/bank outwards on the downswing, pushing the left knee then hips in front the left foot? I guess, visually, this would look like a squatting move.

I would say yes, left knee bank out and right knee bank in. Not a squatting move, though, as the left leg should feel like it's straightening and pushing the hips through and up. See below.