The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[boogielicious]

I've had pretty good success working with S&T since January. I'm starting to consistently shoot in the mid to high 80s and my ball contact is much better. I've only been seriously golfing since last summer and only played once a year or less for 15 years before that. I was basically starting from scratch and read all the books I could find. I liked the S&T approach the best from the readings. Also, as I watch the Pros, I see most of them doing a lot of the S&T method.

For me, I think of it as follows:

The weight forward at the start and throught the swing keeps me from shifting my shoulder center back and helps move the low point in the swing forward, reducing fat shots and making good contact. Hands in, shoulder turn, ball position and other factors control where on the swing circle the ball makes contact. This will determine the ball flight characteristics. I am drawing the ball more and my misses are more overdraws than anything else.

The thrust up to finish helps me with power. I think of it a pushing my right back pocket forward and up. I had a legitimate 300 yard drive last week and I am 50. My irons are 10 yards longer than last fall.

What I am working on is the relationship between ball position, my swing bottom point and how much open to have the club face to control where I want the ball to go. Also, I am working on reducing my tendency to use my right hand for controling the club. This causes the swing arc to get bigger and moves the swing bottom point back (fat shots).

I still have a long way to go and need to start videoing myself. But as an engineer, I find it comforting to have a systematic way to work on my swing and an easy way to analyze what I did wrong.

[bpschmid]

Erik J. and Dave W...happy to report that I finally "got it" at the range yesterday, thanks to a combination of your forums and vids...thanks fellas!! I never realized I was spinning my hips around on the downswing, instead of bumping the left hip laterally, toward the target. My new swing thought is....bump that left hip, and visualize keeping my rear hip pocket facing behind me, just like at address....once I stopped swiveling my hips around, lo and behold, my swing and footwork looks just like the Mike Bennet model...way easier to keep the arms together, stretch the back out and my rear foot doesn't spin out now...follow through is much easier to keep on S/T model too...ALL of this was because I was trying to TURN the hips like the classic swing model, instead of getting linear in my approach....can't say thanks enough guys!!

[iacas]

Erik J. and Dave W...happy to report that I finally "got it" at the range yesterday, thanks to a combination of your forums and vids...thanks fellas!! I never realized I was spinning my hips around on the downswing, instead of bumping the left hip laterally, toward the target. My new swing thought is....bump that left hip, and visualize keeping my rear hip pocket facing behind me, just like at address....once I stopped swiveling my hips around, lo and behold, my swing and footwork looks just like the Mike Bennet model...way easier to keep the arms together, stretch the back out and my rear foot doesn't spin out now...follow through is much easier to keep on S/T model too...ALL of this was because I was trying to TURN the hips like the classic swing model, instead of getting linear in my approach....can't say thanks enough guys!!

Good work, and good sensations. That's sometimes 90% of the battle - finding the right sensations that work for you. Awesome work - keep it up!

[Stretch]

That's sometimes 90% of the battle - finding the right sensations that work for you.

I'm still looking for them! Just can't seem to make the brain-body connection that will get my club back on the right line. The infuriating thing is I can make a really decent practice swing and then when I take a cut at the ball -- keeping all the same corrective thoughts in mind and

feeling like I'm doing the exact same things -- I actually end up laying the club off too much as usual. And if it wasn't for video I wouldn't even know it! I feel like I can't trust what I feel. Doesn't count: Does count: Bollocks.

[damnitdave]

What i have been told with the left knee is that it works 2 inches towards the toes, and two inches back

[Stu.C]

Why am I not drawing the ball? All these shots stayed straight:(

I'm guessing not enough hip slide and, especially on the first iron shot, my head is trying to follow the ball.




Any feedback much appreciated.

[iacas]

Stu, get a DTL view and look at the angle of your shoulders at the top of your backswing. You're going to find that they're incredibly flat - nearly horizontal. There's a lot going on, but basically, you're not catching the balls on the back side of the circle and your hands likely aren't gaining the true depth they need. Yes, the hip's a part of it, but you need to work on turning your shoulders in a more perfect circle (on a plane) first.

[Stretch]

OK, this might get me in trouble, but today I spent an hour or so screwing around with Brian Manzella's Soft Draw Pattern alongside my S&T; swing. Seems to me there's quite a bit of common ground -- hands in deep, step on the left foot to initiate the downswing, big lateral hip move -- but he actually wants you to let the right elbow come out and get the shaft across the line at the top, which is exactly the kind of exaggerated feel I'm trying to create to fight my natural tendency to lay off.

Have to say, it's a very easy way to hit a golf ball and certainly does what it says on the tin, produces a nice draw that just turns over lazily to the target. Better shape, in fact, than I can consistently produce with S&T;, where I'm still stuck on the front of the circle. What you (I) don't get with it right off the bat is that pinpoint low point, but I did definitely find myself more in plane afterward when going back to the S&T; pattern.

Hopefully more good than harm was done.

[iacas]

OK, this might get me in trouble, but today I spent an hour or so screwing around with Brian Manzella's Soft Draw Pattern alongside my S&T swing. Seems to me there's quite a bit of common ground -- hands in deep, step on the left foot to initiate the downswing, big lateral hip move -- but he actually wants you to let the right elbow come out and get the shaft across the line at the top, which is exactly the kind of exaggerated feel I'm trying to create to fight my natural tendency to lay off.

You're not necessarily laid off quite as much as you think. Dave will talk about it more in your evolvr lessons, but the big thing for you is going to be pushing forward. You come over the ball slightly right now.

And your clubs are still way too short or something.

[Stu.C]

Stu, get a DTL view and look at the angle of your shoulders at the top of your backswing. You're going to find that they're incredibly flat - nearly horizontal. There's a lot going on, but basically, you're not catching the balls on the back side of the circle and your hands likely aren't gaining the true depth they need. Yes, the hip's a part of it, but you need to work on turning your shoulders in a more perfect circle (on a plane) first.

Thanks Erik. The more I look at this video of myself the more faults I see, like you said "There's a lot going on".

I started on this swing using forums and Youtube, until I got the book, now with video I can see that some of the things I thought I was doing, I'm not; and some of the things I didn't think I was doing, I am. Back to the drawing board I guess. I had a look at the 'Charlie Wi Hitting all the Positions' video for a DTL model and will work on copying him and post another video ( I'll wear a different coloured shirt than him so you don't get us mixed up )

[bustaone]

Hopefully easy question...
Considering your belt to be 12oclock and your spine to be 6oclock, which direction should you be 'stacking'? 9oclock?or more like 1030? Or just simply towards the target?

[iacas]

Hopefully easy question...

Stacked = on top of one another.

The purpose of the backswing is to maintain the relationship between the upper and lower centers as being stacked - on top of each other. Not towards the target or 9 o'clock.

[Stretch]

Dave Wedzik gave me something to think about that is proving useful. I have been breaking my left knee in too far on the backswing, as illustrated below. He now has me setting up with my knees bent more and rotated more outwards -- and then concentrating on adding flexion toward the left toe as more weight shifts to the left foot. The knee still needs to come in a bit, but now we're talking a few inches rather than all the way back behind the ball. I'm still kinda processing all the effects, but it's clearly helping me in a number of areas.

--

[Stretch]

Quick hit. How do you get your hips sliding more and spinning less? For me, consciously trying to push forward seems to trigger them to whip open, with predictably nasty effects.

[iacas]

Quick hit. How do you get your hips sliding more and spinning less? For me, consciously trying to push forward seems to trigger them to whip open, with predictably nasty effects.

This is one of the toughest things to get. That said, there are a number of feelings that can help you to push the hips forward.

Maintain flex in the left knee and push it forward. Tuck your butt underneath you. Get your belt buckle ahead of your left ankle. Roll your left ankle. Bank your right knee. Expand the left side of your chest. And a few others.

[Hollister]

... Expand the left side of your chest. And a few others.

Erik, I am all ears. Expand the left side of your chest is - feeling-wise - new to me. Think I'll try that.

[MMouse]

I tried the swing last year and put it aside until the past month or so.

Since trying it out again I have had flashes of brilliance with it, and then have seen it all apart.

I'm a little uncomfortable with beginning my down swing. My hips are turning to the point where I am turning on the whole swing and on the worst ones I am going way way left.

Any thoughts or tips on starting the downswing? I've tried a few things and nothing feels right yet.

[iacas]

I'm a little uncomfortable with beginning my down swing. My hips are turning to the point where I am turning on the whole swing and on the worst ones I am going way way left.

Can you tell us what you think should happen on the downswing, and what feeling you're currently using?