The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[outlaw1984]

mvmac:

should i be feeling those arms connected in the 2 pressure points under the armpits....i watched you video on you tube....i was just wondering is this what i should be feeling???

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

mvmac:

should i be feeling those arms connected in the 2 pressure points under the armpits....i watched you video on you tube....i was just wondering is this what i should be feeling???

Good question, I'm literally working on a Swing Thoughts post about this very drill.  I think this drill gives you a good feeling of where the hands should be at the top of the backswing and making sure you maintain the radius of the swing (left arm lever).  With this particular video I'm too exaggerated with the straightness of my right leg and the right arm is too connected to my side.  The right arm is connected at the arm pit but there is space, 3-5 inches, with the right elbow and rib cage.  MORAD information breaks down pressure points #4 & 5 into 3 more upper arm sub pressure points, at the armpit (pp#1), mid-bicep (pp#2), and elbow (pp#3).  So at the top of the backswing you on have pressure point #1.  Fred Couples would have zero and Jason Dufner might have 1.5.

I can't for sure if this is what you should be feeling because I'm not sure whether it's your priority.  But it's a good drill and I think creates some good feels/images.  I do a better job of demonstrating in the recent video I just shot

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54572/right-elbow-spacing-at-a4

[cipher]

Originally Posted by mvmac

By stationary do you mean not moving back at all?  Having the left knee be stationary is not something I would recommend per a centered pivot.  Might be the feel for some people but in reality the left knee will move back a little.  Keeps the hips turning and the head from going down and forward.

Exactly, I am talking about the feeling more than the reality.  My left leg was kicking in much more than this before, now with the "stationary" feeling, it is moving more like the photos you have above.   I will be uploading a video to my James later this week, so I will see what he says about the change as well.

[sk golf]

Originally Posted by cipher

Exactly, I am talking about the feeling more than the reality.  My left leg was kicking in much more than this before, now with the "stationary" feeling, it is moving more like the photos you have above.   I will be uploading a video to my James later this week, so I will see what he says about the change as well.

This might be a good drill for you to incorporate that feel.

[sk golf]

Just to be clear I wanted to add a dtl picture also

[cipher]

Originally Posted by sk golf

Just to be clear I wanted to add a dtl picture also

Thanks again.  This all helps a lot.  Before, my left leg was coming in quite a bit more than this.   I also realized that I still need to turn my left foot out a bit more to get this effect.

[Hogan1949]

I started taking using the S&T; pattern about one month ago and am having good progress with my shorter irons (7I-LW) but I'm alternating between hitting big pushes (or push fades) and snap hooks with the Driver. I know it's got to be a face issue but I can't seem to fix it. any ideas?

Thanks

[mchepp]

A video would surely help to diagnose the issue. A push fade (which I find to be fairly common for S&T;) for me was because I never got forward enough with the pelvis and I would swipe at the ball and hit very weak pushes. Thing is without a video tough for anyone to be sure.

[Hogan1949]

Originally Posted by mchepp

A video would surely help to diagnose the issue. A push fade (which I find to be fairly common for S&T;) for me was because I never got forward enough with the pelvis and I would swipe at the ball and hit very weak pushes.

Thing is without a video tough for anyone to be sure.

Mike.......is there a danger in too much lateral slide with the hips? When I sometimetimes more more left (where the wieght is on the outside of my front foot), it makes rotating the upper body through the shot difficult.

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by Hogan1949

Mike.......is there a danger in too much lateral slide with the hips? When I sometimetimes more more left (where the wieght is on the outside of my front foot), it makes rotating the upper body through the shot difficult.

Simple answer is yes. Especially if it causes you to move your head forward or lose your balance. In doing S&T; I would reverse hip slide where the hips would start going forward and then not be able to go anymore forward and I would hit overdraws. This was Mikecorrection for the push fade problem which I hated.

The hips sliding forward needs to be done in concert with some rotation.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Hogan1949

I started taking using the S&T; pattern about one month ago and am having good progress with my shorter irons (7I-LW) but I'm alternating between hitting big pushes (or push fades) and snap hooks with the Driver. I know it's got to be a face issue but I can't seem to fix it. any ideas?

Thanks

Hi -

Check the grip - slightly strong

Face at address slightly open to target line while body is square to target but both feet flared open

Ball position - too far back and face will be too open at impact

Think path - slightly closed relative to the open face - in fact, I imagine my path when looking down at address and towards impact - it seems to help

Arms are coming in late (keeping the path too open) -  I believe Mike and Erik have mentioned this in posts about the arms. Keep arms close to body but get them going

[Mr. Desmond]

Still having issues w/ SnT - no doubt because of too many swing thoughts.

But progress is being made ... slowly when you have no SnT instructor in the area. Over the last 15 yrs, have attempted Haney, Hardy, and then TGM, the last with some progress. But went to SnT to eliminate the weight shift to the back, and that instructor telling me not to straighten the right leg.  Amazingly, among area instructors with great reputation - I found limited knowledge when questions were asked, and less attention to basics - like the 5 Keys. One of my issues was being a natural lefty and swinging as a righty - will post later about that.

Latest issue w the swing is fat hits and deeper divots.

Resolution is getting the arms down faster with the handle in front on the clubhead, while keeping the back to the ball for a slight in to out path and more speed.

I also found that I was digging and getting toe hits because the right hand lever was going down and down - instead of down and out at the ball, resulting in contact towards the toe and digging. When I allowed the wrists to go out at the ball, contact was center and more shallow - center contact,  less divot and sand shots were more effortless. It was a different feel - I want the left wrist flat and the right wrist to retain an angle. It was ... different.

I need to get over my potential embarrassment and post my swing to make better progress - but I don't know if anyone would have picked up on the above.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

But progress is being made ... slowly when you have no SnT instructor in the area.

I need to get over my potential embarrassment and post my swing to make better progress - but I don't know if anyone would have picked up on the above.

To the first paragraph, it may be high time for you to try evolvr.com.

To the second, yes, post your video in a My Swing thread.

[Bullitt5339]

Background:  I was a player who could shoot an 84 one day and a 104 the next.  I just had no consistency in my swing.  I have an instructor who works with me when I need him, and he seems to make some changed that just take a long time to engrain into my muscle memory.

So I decided to buy Stack and Tilt to work on here at the house.  At first it was alien, and I struggled to hit anything well, my average rounds shot up to a 106 stroke average.  I was about to stop, but decided to stick with it and try to improve.  Going to the range 3 or 4 times a week and playing 2 rounds per week during the winter.

After about 2 weeks, I noticed my irons were starting to come around.  I was still fading the ball, but it was very predictable.  The shoulder turn prescribed made a huge difference out on the course.  I could play it.  My driver and fairway woods went to complete crap and I couldn't hit the at all.

Went to my instructor and we identified that my lower body had too much movement in it on the backswing, including swaying.  I really thought I was trying to keep my hips centered on the backswing.  He gave me a new "feel" wit the driver which is completely alien to me right now, but I've stuck with it and after 2 weeks of work on the driver, it's actually coming around.

By feeling like I'm bracing my hips from turning and thinking of "Back to Target/Chest to Target", I have made huge strides in my driver swing.  Getting the weight to shift that far forward has been a challenge to me, but when I get it right, it's beautiful.

I'm going to stick with it and keep practicing until there's grass on the ground and see what I can shoot this year.  My goal is to shoot mid-80's on most of my local courses.

[logman]

Good luck with it. I really need to find out more about S and T. Keep  updating

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

Went to my instructor and we identified that my lower body had too much movement in it on the backswing, including swaying.  I really thought I was trying to keep my hips centered on the backswing.  He gave me a new "feel" wit the driver which is completely alien to me right now, but I've stuck with it and after 2 weeks of work on the driver, it's actually coming around.

By feeling like I'm bracing my hips from turning and thinking of "Back to Target/Chest to Target", I have made huge strides in my driver swing.  Getting the weight to shift that far forward has been a challenge to me, but when I get it right, it's beautiful.

Just one quick question: who's your instructor? "Bracing your hips from turning" would be an odd sensation for an S&T; instructor to give (though if they're turning too quickly, or prematurely, one that could still be valid of course).

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by iacas

Just one quick question: who's your instructor? "Bracing your hips from turning" would be an odd sensation for an S&T; instructor to give (though if they're turning too quickly, or prematurely, one that could still be valid of course).

That is not something I was taught, it was simply the feeling I got after he put me in the correct position and I began to hit the ball a lot straighter.  I tend to rotate my hips along with my shoulders on the back swing, turning almost horizontally from the knees up, if that makes sense.  Then I would rotate my hips very quickly when I started the downswing, which had me cutting across the ball horribly, and led to extreme shots off the toe, especially with the driver. I would also hit down into the ball with the driver my extreme miss was off the toe and crown (at the same time, if you can believe that) taking a divot on the inside of the tee, leaving the tee in place.  It was a horrible period in my golf life, I almost quit playing because of it.  I was actually told that with as close as I was standing to the ball (a byproduct of trying to stop the toe shots) and as fast as my hips turned, there was no way I could ever achieve an inside/out swing path, which makes sense, since when I actually tried to come from the inside, I would hit the ground behind the ball.

I have been trying to follow the S&T; book and DVD, there's no certified instructor in North Carolina, but I wasn't doing very well.  Another S&T; guy (who's a lot better than I am and plays to a 6hc) recommended a guy named Anthony C.  (I won't even attempt to spell his last name) who is not a certified S&T; instructor, just a PGA Apprentice, but teaches the same fundamentals and helped him out a lot when he first started S&T.;  Upon going to see him, he was indeed teaching me the same fundamentals covered in the S&T; materials I own, which truly helped me get into the proper positions and to "feel" what I should on a good shot.

I thought I was doing things right, but since I can't see my own swing, I was incorrectly performing the simple fundamentals.

If there was an authorized S&T; Instructor or 5SK instructor within an hour drive of me, I would be taking a lot more lessons, but as far as the fundamentals of S&T; for someone who's just learning the swing, it was very helpful to have someone see what I was doing wrong, and put me in the correct position so that I could feel it.  I will be the first to admit that I am just starting to retool and rethink my swing and learn what should be correct after this meltdown, and this entire process may not be the final golf voyage I take, but working on just the fundamentals has seemed to really improve my ball striking when I execute them correctly, and I'm actually starting to learn and feel "why" the ball did what it did and based on that, what I did wrong on that particular swing.

While my handicap is still stagnant after I completely lost my swing (I need to update it, I am a 22 now after my meltdown), I finally feel like there's light at the end of the tunnel of horrible golf and that I'm getting close to emerging into mediocre golf.  Seriously, I went from a 12 to a 24 in the span of one year and have worked it back down to a 22 in the past 2 months with a major swing change in there.  I thought it was a slump, but they don't last a year, so it was obviously time to change the way I looked at the golf swing.

[rowlf]

I must be living in a cocoon and I just knew about Stack and Tilt from an old copy of Golf Digest.

I am not sure if this was from TGM as some say on this forum. I have been learning from a TGM instructor since 2009 and I was never taught Stack and Tilt. Looked like a reverse pivot if you ask me.