The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[scopek]

Weight forward on the backswing doesn't happen with a centered pivot so make sure feel doesn't become real.  Mistake or misconception for S&T; students is to translate the head down and forward on the backswing.

Thanks for the input. That makes sense. I'm basically trying to combine the 5 Simple Keys and S&T.; One of the thing that I took away from the 5SK's is to just make sure my head stays still and I don't shift to the right rather then literally trying to keep put more weight on my left as I go back. But your point is interesting because I do have a tendency to have my head move down on the back swing. To keep it from going down, I feel like I'm almost standing up when I do a back swing. It's going to take a bit of work to break that habit.

[Mr. Desmond]

Thanks for the input. That makes sense. I'm basically trying to combine the 5 Simple Keys and S&T.; One of the thing that I took away from the 5SK's is to just make sure my head stays still and I don't shift to the right rather then literally trying to keep put more weight on my left as I go back. But your point is interesting because I do have a tendency to have my head move down on the back swing. To keep it from going down, I feel like I'm almost standing up when I do a back swing. It's going to take a bit of work to break that habit.

Working on that issue, too, among others.

Try your arms across your shoulders and your head against a wall. Turn.

Try a BenderStick

Bend knees, flare left foot, weight balanced between heel and toes - although I like it balanced slightly more towards the balls of the feet, etc. Feel weight pressure in rear foot at the top.

[scopek]

Working on that issue, too, among others.

Try your arms across your shoulders and your head against a wall. Turn.

Try a BenderStick

Bend knees, flare left foot, weight balanced between heel and toes - although I like it balanced slightly more towards the balls of the feet, etc. Feel weight pressure in rear foot at the top.

Thanks. I can do the head against the wall drill just fine. The problem occurs once I get a club in my hand. I've seen the BenderStick. I've tried various things to create my own version of it, but they've been hard to keep set up. If you're endorsing it, I'll probably go online and order one. It would probably help.

[Mr. Desmond]

Thanks. I can do the head against the wall drill just fine. The problem occurs once I get a club in my hand. I've seen the BenderStick. I've tried various things to create my own version of it, but they've been hard to keep set up. If you're endorsing it, I'll probably go online and order one. It would probably help.

I do take BenderStick to the range to keep my head in place ... there are other uses for it, like for the hip turn, or coming down on plane, as its DVD will show, but I do use it for the head most of the time. You must be dedicated to use it.

[scopek]

I do take BenderStick to the range to keep my head in place ... there are other uses for it, like for the hip turn, or coming down on plane, as its DVD will show, but I do use it for the head most of the time. You must be dedicated to use it.

I'm completely obsessed.

[mvmac]

Thanks for the input. That makes sense. I'm basically trying to combine the 5 Simple Keys and S&T.; One of the thing that I took away from the 5SK's is to just make sure my head stays still and I don't shift to the right rather then literally trying to keep put more weight on my left as I go back. But your point is interesting because I do have a tendency to have my head move down on the back swing. To keep it from going down, I feel like I'm almost standing up when I do a back swing. It's going to take a bit of work to break that habit.

If you ever need help and don't have an instructor available, I would highly recommend Evolvr online instruction http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

The instructors are 5SK guys who are very familiar with the S&T; pattern.  A S&T; swing done properly satisfies all 5 Keys.  Instead of necessarily trying to do all 10 words, use S&T; or 5SK to help your priority piece.  If the head is going down, you could be side bending too much or the rear knee might not be losing some flex.  Or it could simply be that your eyes/chin are too "up" at address and the head going down is a compensation.

[boogielicious]

Thanks for the input. That makes sense. I'm basically trying to combine the 5 Simple Keys and S&T.; One of the thing that I took away from the 5SK's is to just make sure my head stays still and I don't shift to the right rather then literally trying to keep put more weight on my left as I go back. But your point is interesting because I do have a tendency to have my head move down on the back swing. To keep it from going down, I feel like I'm almost standing up when I do a back swing. It's going to take a bit of work to break that habit.

The other feeling that helps is feeling your right side stretch tall, as is discuss in the 5SK videos.  My head was dipping at the top, and this feeling corrected that.

[scopek]

If you ever need help and don't have an instructor available, I would highly recommend Evolvr online instruction http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

The instructors are 5SK guys who are very familiar with the S&T; pattern.  A S&T; swing done properly satisfies all 5 Keys.  Instead of necessarily trying to do all 10 words, use S&T; or 5SK to help your priority piece.  If the head is going down, you could be side bending too much or the rear knee might not be losing some flex.  Or it could simply be that your eyes/chin are too "up" at address and the head going down is a compensation.

Thanks for the insights. I've seriously considered doing Evolvr online several times in the past. I've been hesitant, however, not to have someone work with me in person and just haven't pulled the trigger. I've gone back and forth between teachers and different swing approaches. I think this has resulted in poor results and has just confused my brain with too many mixed messages on things like the lateral hip slide, weight shift, how to get on plane, etc.. I've ended up making little progress in the last year despite putting in a lot of time practicing. The new S&T; instructor I've found is great, but he is heading down to Florida for the winter season. He's having me start from scratch (partly my request) and we're just working on the flying wedge drill before moving forward. I like this approach. Do you think working with Evolvr over the winter would be consistent with what he's started me on?

[scopek]

The other feeling that helps is feeling your right side stretch tall, as is discuss in the 5SK videos.  My head was dipping at the top, and this feeling corrected that.

Yeah, I remember that from the DVDs. I'll try it out.

BTW, I hope your side doesn't hurt too much after my Tigers kick some Red Sox butt tonight! Sorry...Saw your location and couldn't resist ;-)

[mvmac]

He's having me start from scratch (partly my request) and we're just working on the flying wedge drill before moving forward. I like this approach. Do you think working with Evolvr over the winter would be consistent with what he's started me on?

I can't say for sure because I don't know what your issues are or where you are in your progression.  All I can say is that they have a very good success rate.

[TheBogeyMan]

If its a case of one or the other, would I be best to learn from the book or DVDs?

[Phil McGleno]

Either is fine-Just consider how you learn best-But make good use of a mirror and video so you dont overdo thingsand feelings, and regularly work with someone who understands the swing-I think you can get online help here or with some other instructors if you dont have someone nearby.

[nevets88]

If its a case of one or the other, would I be best to learn from the book or DVDs?

In retrospect, I would not have bought the 2.0 dvds, I rarely rewatch them. 5SK and Martin Chuck's new dvds/digital downloads (recently had an amazing discount, not sure if still active) are much better.

[TheBogeyMan]

Gave the swing a go at range last night. Haven't purchased either book or DVD yet but just going by some basic YouTube videos. Really see a change in flight of ball. Nice draw sometimes becoming a hook though. Also struggling off tee with it. I'm going to research it further and see what I've missed (probably something glaring) before trying again. Was sure I was still striking ground behind the ball rather than down on the ball into the ground in front though.

[TheBogeyMan]

First round using swing after a few successful days at range. Worst round of year. Pull hooks every single shot. Uncontrollable. Any idea why this would happen using S

[iacas]

First round using swing after a few successful days at range.

Worst round of year. Pull hooks every single shot. Uncontrollable. Any idea why this would happen using S&T;

At the risk of being astoundingly simple: you hit pull-hooks because your face was pointed left of the target and your path was right of the face.

(I'm assuming you're right-handed.)

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBogeyMan

First round using swing after a few successful days at range.

Worst round of year. Pull hooks every single shot. Uncontrollable. Any idea why this would happen using S&T;

At the risk of being astoundingly simple: you hit pull-hooks because your face was pointed left of the target and your path was right of the face.

(I'm assuming you're right-handed.)

That, and teaching yourself to hit push-draws if you don't hit push-draws can be very difficult. Often times what one needs to feel in order to create that ball flight is so alien that the people teaching themselves never arrive at it. That's where having a good instructor not just helps, but is kind of an imperative.

[Mr. Desmond]

There are a couple of training aids to help you with a gentle inside out path...

I found the vision track pro to be great. You can actually hit balls off it - no need for grass.

http://www.golfshopcentral.com/p-1-medicusreg-visiontrack-pro.aspx

This one will also help immensely:

http://www.golfshopcentral.com/p-324-medicus-steadihead-purestrike-training-aid.aspx

As to the book or DVD, it's really not either or -- the book is inexpensive on Amazon - get it, and S&T; 2.0.

But don't overdo S&T; - there is a problem with it. Weight does go to the back foot:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64993/weight-forward-using-swingcatalyst-and-sam-balance-lab-to-explain-pressure-throughout-the-swing