Reading the Greens when Putting

[Leftygolfer]

A picture's worth more than words!

This green reading diagram is total garbage. Where you aim isn't the high point. It is 2 or 3 times that. The apex of the putt is impact. It drops below that line right after you hit it. This has been confirmed by Pelz and Michelson. Read his book or watch his video. The only way to make putts if you aim for the apex is you pull or push putts above that line.

[zeg]

This green reading diagram is total garbage. Where you aim isn't the high point. It is 2 or 3 times that. The apex of the putt is impact. It drops below that line right after you hit it. This has been confirmed by Pelz and Michelson. Read his book or watch his video. The only way to make putts if you aim for the apex is you pull or push putts above that line.

Total garbage? That's a little strong (and a lot more hostile than necessary) don't you think? I think you're assuming there's a consistent bank the whole way along the putt. The diagram looks to me like it's a case where there's a mostly flat region followed by a bank in the green. Maybe not a real common situation, but hardly "garbage."

[misty_mountainhop]

...

Boy, am I glad this man is not a teacher.

http://blogs.golf.com/top100/2009/01...e-top-1-1.html

This says nothing. Nothing at all. Added to that, the author is an ass who seems to think that being funny (does he really imagine that he is?) and/or rude is "evidence" to support his opinion. And the Journal of Sports Sciences? Impact factor (2008) = 1.625. In other words, may as well read a tabloid newspaper.

Dave Pelz says it doesn't work at all in his book(s) too.

THIS is your evidence??

Here's the simplest definition. If you're standing directly behind the hole/ball line, a straight vertical line will always connect them. Always.

Of course it will.

Maybe I misunderstand what plumb bobbing is and, yes, there is error in this and any other method come to that. So let's assume one can hold a putter shaft vertical, loosely between thumb and forefinger. It'll dangle vertical (i.e. towards the centre of Earth's gravity) no matter if I'm stood on a flat surface or one that's locally sloped. Now cut a standard hole in the surface, place your dominant eye behind vertical shaft and in line with the edge of the hole. The plane of the hole's surface will cut an angle with the putter shaft that's not 90° if the hole is on a sloped surface. It must. If you line up with both edges of the hole one after the other you'll get one obtuse angle and one acute and you'll have some idea of the break at the hole . It won't tell you anything about the intervening 30 feet or whatever distance the putt is. Any other methods are just educated guesswork anyway so what difference? I never said it was a panacea for putting. It's just something that may add an extra bit of information which may help.

[iacas]

THIS is your evidence??

No, common sense is. The fact that you can connect two points with a vertical line by standing on the line. Move your head to either side and the putt will break different directions.

[wedge player]

No, common sense is. The fact that you can connect two points with a vertical line by standing on the line. Move your head to either side and the putt will break different directions.

i wish there was a way i could show you how i plumb bob i almost never have the putter touching the hole.

[misty_mountainhop]

No, common sense is. The fact that you can connect two points with a vertical line by standing on the line. Move your head to either side and the putt will break different directions.

Well, yes, obviously. I don't dispute this and I think what I do (I don't do this very often anyway!) is not the "typical" plumb bobbing that others appear to do.

In fact, I want my putter to make a line between ball and hole. What I'm trying to get a visual on is whether the plane of the hole in the ground cuts an acute/obtuse angle with a vertical putter shaft. So I position myself with the hole edge aligned with the shaft i.e. so the hole's edge appears to be just touching the shaft. If I see an obtuse angle with the hole to the right of the shaft , it's breaking left-to-right at the hole . If I see an acute angle with the hole to the right of the shaft , it's breaking right-to-left at the hole . If you have the hole lined up the other side of the shaft, things are obviously reversed. If you assume that there is a single break and it's the same the whole putt (big assumption I know), getting a read as above is going to help. Even if it's just telling you about the break at the hole, it's a help. Anyway, I don't know why I'm posting as I almost never do this . If the angles are big enough to see like this, you should be able to read the break easily anyway. None of this tells you by how much a putt will move.

[iacas]

In fact, I

But that's not how people are taught to plumb bob. They're taught to see the cup on one side of the hole or the other, and that doesn't work. Seems you'd agree with that.

Your method may work (though it has problems as well, not the least of which being that the slope exactly at the hole will never be greater than a few degrees AND tells you nothing about the intervening 99% of the putt), but that's not traditional "plumb bobbing."

i wish there was a way i could show you how i plumb bob i almost never have the putter touching the hole.

Not really interested. I'm virtually certain you're not doing anything that makes any sense. It doesn't even sound like you're doing the thing above.

Traditional plumb bobbing can only help with two things: a) to confirm what your subconscious mind is trying to tell you. b) to provide a vertical line as a point of reference if you're easily fooled by nearby terrain, mountains, etc. If you use it for a, I suggest you figure out how to get your subconscious to communicate more effectively to your conscious mind. If you use it for b, it doesn't matter where you're aiming - you're just using it as a vertical reference, so aim anywhere and let your eyes use the added info. But that's not really plumb bobbing either - that's just making a vertical "level."

[Blades4me]

Everything that I've read about plumb bobing says it is more myth than practicle. Personally I don't use it,but golf with ppl that do and they seem to be pretty successful with it. So, seeing as how putting is very mental, anything that makes you more confident and comfortable with the put is a good thing; and yes that goes for plumb bobing too.

[flopdarock]

i dont plumb bob... but the only way i would do it is to find a preliminary target between my ball and where i want it to go... kinda to help my with alignment and not to read the green or breaks or anything