Tour Striker Training Aid

[newbgolfer]

Nope, thats not how it works. If you did that, you would only be trying to hit the upper half of the face of the club (which isn't ideal in any case). However, if you purchased a club with negative offset (is that technically correct??) then yes, you can shave off the front. A club such as this:

http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/f2-golf-face-forward-plus-wedge.html#

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by DublinMeUp

OK, i still dont get why LAG is such a technically explained concept?

Its basic physics, newtons third law "every action has and equal and opposite reaction", so when we swing our club back and then change this momentum at the top of our swing to a forward swing the club heads momentum makes it still want to move backwards "equal and opposite" therefore we feel the shaft / grip put pressure on our right index finger area.

I was a competitive beach angler in my teens and "LAG" was a vital element of the cast to achieve distance, ie the tip of the rod is behind your hands and the weight on the end of the line is behind the tip of the rod at all times during the cast until release ( causing the bow like shape in the rod )

So i understand LAG and lean, what i want to know is with this club will continual use teach my body how to swing the club correctly to achieve the above with a golf club by pure intuition? ie will it over time change my back swing, pivot, swing speed etc until i can hit it sweet or will i need to have a very good swing already

Edit: I'd be looking at the 7 pro if i was getting any of them, not the pro x as the sweet spot is ridiculously small lol

if by your opinion LAG is technical? whoever you had heard it from is making it too complicated. but i can't see LAG being more technical than how you described.

lets be honest, newtons third law, or LAG? i'd rather avoid newton. haha

LAG is simple. your wrists bend at an angle at the top of your swing. when you start your forward motion, you dont straighten or "release" that angle immediately rather you release it at the proper place.

the most common way to explain this is exactly how the tour striker is taught to be used. lean the shaft forward, steeper angle of attack, avoid the "flip", and you'll be hitting the ball without sacrificing distance. I also noticed that i hit the ball more consistently then i used to, as well as make much better short game swings.

Seeing the proper motion vs. the in-proper motion made understanding this easier. im a visual learner with motion and examples. not into book learning.

Flipping the hands is almost like "fighting gravity". for example i know running downhill that i can run much faster than say running UP that IDENTICAL hill.

Now THAT ^^^^ is simple. your use of newtons third law although correct, not the ideal technique for teaching really anybody the idea of downward, ball-then-ground, shaft lean contact.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Honestly I'd rather start someone brand new with something like this so their first principle is preserving forward pressure and then work on the motion to build consistency and neutral ball flight.  I see a lot of swings that look "good" position-wise, but aren't good dynamically.  No device is ever going to make you a tour player.  But if you can figure out how to get this thing in the air consistently, I'd bet that no matter what you paid for it you would be happy with the purchase.

i started golfing about a year and a half ago and wished i had started sooner. im in my second year of college, and in a rather unusual era, im old school. my swing i now know was not "proper" when i first started golfing but it was really just very small parts of the swing like flipping the hands or a straight (or straight as possible) left arm on my back swing to help bring the club through the same path more consistently.

But when i bought this club, and still feel this way, i only cared that i was hitting it "right". getting the ball up. i try to think of it as just doing whatever i can to get there. My favorite player is Tom Watson and he said the best advice he ever got was from his dads Sunday golf group. "Don't worry about anything, just make sure that clubface is going towards your target before you swing" (Feherty). This club really should be the first club in everyones bag no matter what age. worry about the other stuff later, and just get it done.

Ex. Jim Furyk has a less than stellar swing to mostly anyone who watches golf (mostly commenators like Johnny Miller) in the professional golf world. Yet he won the 2010 Fedex Cup Championship. Gettin' it done. haha

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Can't we perhaps shave off like an old club and make it identical to the tourstriker?

Really?  Come on guys.  If you start shaving off an old club, you'll likely just jack up the swing weight and have something butt ugly.  Do what you want, but on something like this, if it takes more than two hours of my time, it's worth more than $100 to me.  You're paying for the time to make it, a little bit of material cost, but mostly for QA and development to get the concept right.  A little bit of marketing and some profit for Martin Chuck, who I think deserves some here.  Just go out, do your day job or whatever you're good at, make some money and save up $100.  That will probably be a more effective use of your time.  If it were $1000, a homemade one might be in the cards.  $100 is going to be hard to beat.

[DublinMeUp]

if by your opinion LAG is technical? whoever you had heard it from is making it too complicated. but i can't see LAG being more technical than how you described.

lets be honest, newtons third law, or LAG? i'd rather avoid newton. haha

LAG is simple. your wrists bend at an angle at the top of your swing. when you start your forward motion, you dont straighten or "release" that angle immediately rather you release it at the proper place.

the most common way to explain this is exactly how the tour striker is taught to be used. lean the shaft forward, steeper angle of attack, avoid the "flip", and you'll be hitting the ball without sacrificing distance. I also noticed that i hit the ball more consistently then i used to, as well as make much better short game swings.

Seeing the proper motion vs. the in-proper motion made understanding this easier. im a visual learner with motion and examples. not into book learning.

Flipping the hands is almost like "fighting gravity". for example i know running downhill that i can run much faster than say running UP that IDENTICAL hill.

Now THAT ^^^^ is simple. your use of newtons third law although correct, not the ideal technique for teaching really anybody the idea of downward, ball-then-ground, shaft lean contact.

very true mate, perhaps i read it as technical due to people trying to describe a "feel", i fell into this trap myself lol using strange examples that make sense in my head but maybe not others. At least i know i understand it now though, all that is left to do is put it in practice, shouldn't be to hard right? ;-)

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by DublinMeUp

very true mate, perhaps i read it as technical due to people trying to describe a "feel", i fell into this trap myself lol using strange examples that make sense in my head but maybe not others.

At least i know i understand it now though, all that is left to do is put it in practice, shouldn't be to hard right?

unfortunately proper contact hasn't been this easy to explain. and the only reason it is COULD be all because of the design of the tour striker. You hear it all the time, the hardest thing to teach those young high school players is hitting downward on the ball. And now, theres a club that you cant unless you physically force yourself to. I love this club not just because its helps me become more precise, but is really nice when hitting turf. The rounded edge resists digging even in comparison to the newer iron designs with a slightly rounded edge to help with turf interaction. i wish i could get a whole set haha

either way....putting in the time is the most important thing. get into a rythym and worry less about the technical angles and swing arcs and such. just focus on solid tempo, while focusing on literally picking the ball off the grass like your hitting off concrete or tarmac. its a really nice feeling when properly done too. =)

[DublinMeUp]

100% getting one, its decided. Straight after i get my new 2 hybrid ;-).. hey, i need something to get me out of trouble on the course while i learn how to hit correctly on the range

[bunkerputt]

Here's a great drill (reverse directions if lefty) to do with your tour striker to groove the feeling of preserving the energy created through the transition:

Take your normal setup, grip the club as you normally do.  Now, consciously lighten your left hand grip pressure and take your right thumb (and last three fingers if you want) off the shaft.  You want

to feel like the only way you can control the clubface is with the pad on the right index finger.  You want to hit balls almost like the motion at around 0:40 in this video clip:

The only way for you to feel like you have control over the club like this is to maintain the pressure in your right hand.  Start with half-swings, then move up to 3/4 swings.  You'll find that with a tighter backswing, it's much easier to maintain control over the club.  You'll also find that you have to take advantage of the load created from the change of directions in the transition.  The transition is where the pressure in your right hand starts increasing.  Try to maintain this pressure as long as possible.  You don't have to increase the pressure to hit good shots, you just need to maintain it.  If you increase the pressure too quickly, you may not be able to maintain it past impact.  The fact that the pressure is constant means the clubhead is accelerating.

I was working on this at the range today and found I'm up to about 50% decent shots with the tour striker after just a week of doing this drill.  Ball flight started low, but is now a high baby draw.  I was surprised at how high you can hit the ball even with a lot of forward shaft lean.  I think this is mainly because now, the VCOG of the club head is lower than it was for me before.  Since the ball is being compressed so much, it spins less, giving me higher launch, and lower spin.

[newtogolf]

Tour Striker 7i Pro came in last night so I'm looking forward to trying it out today.  Just looking at the club face I can tell I'll be hitting a lot of ground balls with it initially.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Tour Striker 7i Pro came in last night so I'm looking forward to trying it out today.  Just looking at the club face I can tell I'll be hitting a lot of ground balls with it initially.

Curious to hear your first post after trying it.  My expectation is that you will get at least one in the air and then your mind will be completely blown....

[newtogolf]

I was shocked - now remember I got the 7i Pro not Pro X but I hit a line drive on my first swing and after that it was all rockets going about 150-160 yards with a slight fade or draw (still have to work out keeping my right wrist square).

The key was watching the video and understanding how to build and hold the lag even the section on grip was informative.  I practiced his grape drill using a mini marshmallow (grapes seemed too messy) last night and i could really get a good sense of feel for holding the lag.  My golf instructor was at the range and saw me hitting the ball and thought I was using my 5i (my average 7i before today was about 135) when he walked over and saw the Tour Striker he kind of scoffed and told me to grab my 7i but the ball still flew as far so he was pretty quiet after that.

Thank you for the suggestion.  This is by far the best golf investment I have ever made.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Curious to hear your first post after trying it.  My expectation is that you will get at least one in the air and then your mind will be completely blown....

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

My golf instructor was at the range and saw me hitting the ball and thought I was using my 5i (my average 7i before today was about 135) when he walked over and saw the Tour Striker he kind of scoffed and told me to grab my 7i but the ball still flew as far so he was pretty quiet after that.

Sounds to me like it might be time for a new instructor .

[newtogolf]

Maybe, he's a bit old school plus he didn't suggest it so it probably irked him that I was searching for answers elsewhere.   In either case he couldn't argue with the results.

In fairness to him, he has spoken of lag and the importance of it for power but couldn't explain it or demonstrate it as well as the video - something in it just clicked when I watched it and did the grape drill.  Also, he did encourage me to practice with blades and hit down on the ball which is why I probably did hit the Tour Striker well right from the start but I must have been flipping or doing something to lose the lag as I never had this distance before today.

I plan to keep practicing with it for the rest of the season then maybe try the 5i or X version of the 7i next year

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Sounds to me like it might be time for a new instructor .

[iacas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Maybe, he's a bit old school plus he didn't suggest it so it probably irked him that I was searching for answers elsewhere.   In either case he couldn't argue with the results.

In fairness to him, he has spoken of lag and the importance of it for power but couldn't explain it or demonstrate it as well as the video - something in it just clicked when I watched it and did the grape drill.  Also, he did encourage me to practice with blades and hit down on the ball which is why I probably did hit the Tour Striker well right from the start but I must have been flipping or doing something to lose the lag as I never had this distance before today.

I'd seriously consider finding a new instructor as well. Not only did he fail to convey something to you in person better than something you saw on a DVD, but he scoffed at you as if you can't improve on your own without him.

[newtogolf]

I guess when you put it that way it seems like it might be time to move on.  He has helped me, but I probably have gotten as much from him as I can at this point.  I appreciate the advice, thanks.

Originally Posted by iacas

I'd seriously consider finding a new instructor as well. Not only did he fail to convey something to you in person better than something you saw on a DVD, but he scoffed at you as if you can't improve on your own without him.

[DublinMeUp]

Ok guys I'm gonna order mine tomorrow, I have a problem being decisive when buying golf stuff so here is my latest problem. I originally was going for the pro 7 but now I'm thinkin of getting the 7 pro x, reason being I at first opted for the easier to hit model because I am new to the game etc but now feel that even though it'll take longer to hit the pro x there is greater benefits to be had once I do learn to hit it. Does this make sense? Like i kinda feel like the normal pro 7 is cheating ( just obv cheating less than my standard 7i ). Btw may be a stupid question but does it stand a chance of helpin me hit my driver? I suffer with a beginners slice, if not cool but it'd be a nice bonus =)

[newtogolf]

Not an expert here but I had the 7 Pro X in the cart first then read through the site more.  The Pro X model is geared towards single digit handicappers who are looking to further improve their contact with the "sweet spot" on an iron.  I went back and took a look at the face of the Pro X version - it's very small, anything less than a near perfect swing would result in a poor ball flight.  My #1 goal was to ensure I was hitting down on the ball and building proper lag which the 7i Pro has and will help me improve in that area.

My biggest fear was that the Pro X would be so hard to hit I'd get frustrated with it and not use it.  While my initial results with the 7i Pro was better than I expected I still have a lot of work to do with it (hitting it on real grass and not thick grass simulated mats) before I would consider moving up to the 7 Pro X or 5 Pro club.

Originally Posted by DublinMeUp

Ok guys I'm gonna order mine tomorrow, I have a problem being decisive when buying golf stuff so here is my latest problem.

I originally was going for the pro 7 but now I'm thinkin of getting the 7 pro x, reason being I at first opted for the easier to hit model because I am new to the game etc but now feel that even though it'll take longer to hit the pro x there is greater benefits to be had once I do learn to hit it.

Does this make sense? Like i kinda feel like the normal pro 7 is cheating ( just obv cheating less than my standard 7i ).

Btw may be a stupid question but does it stand a chance of helpin me hit my driver? I suffer with a beginners slice, if not cool but it'd be a nice bonus =)

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by DublinMeUp

Ok guys I'm gonna order mine tomorrow, I have a problem being decisive when buying golf stuff so here is my latest problem.

I originally was going for the pro 7 but now I'm thinkin of getting the 7 pro x, reason being I at first opted for the easier to hit model because I am new to the game etc but now feel that even though it'll take longer to hit the pro x there is greater benefits to be had once I do learn to hit it.

Does this make sense? Like i kinda feel like the normal pro 7 is cheating ( just obv cheating less than my standard 7i ).

Btw may be a stupid question but does it stand a chance of helpin me hit my driver? I suffer with a beginners slice, if not cool but it'd be a nice bonus =)

The Pro 5 is probably halfway between the difficulty of the two, if you're interested in that.  You really need to hit the exact center of the face with the Pro X 7.  If you're just starting out, I'd think the Pro 7 will be difficult enough to hit, but provide a frequent enough reward to be instructive.  Something to consider...

I definitely understand the mentality of not giving yourself forgiveness so that you can improve.  What happens more often than not, however, is that frustration and consequently, swing compensations creep in a bit.  Now that I'm a little more mentally mature about the game than I was when I started 5 years ago, I find that the gradual method is best.  Start working on your swing, but gradually taking away things that make it easy, too forgiving clubs, not hitting out of divots and only hitting off mats... things like that.  You can be gun-ho about improvement, but still keep the pace slow (think patient ).  What you are looking for is permanent improvement.  That kind just takes time.

Speaking of... took the striker out to the range yesterday.  It's a range I like to hit now when I work on my swing because it's uphill and there's almost always a direct and strong headwind.  In the past, I hated it because I always overswung trying to get out to the targets to fight the wind and the elevation.  It was such a difficult range for me to do well at, but now I relish the difficulty.  They overseeded the grounds, so we were hitting off mats.  Not sure if that affected my success rate or not.  I hit 50 balls, 1 ball was topped, 49 were hit solid, 44 were identical in line and trajectory, landing right on my target 180y out with a medium-high baby draw.  5 started on line, but hooked about 30 yards left.  I couldn't tell if I caught it towards the hosel and it beveled off to the left, or if I dropped my arms too far to the inside, which is a bad habit I've tried to break.  Not sure if it was the mats or the drill that really made the difference.  I hit it off of the "tight" section of the mat, not the fuzzy fake grass section.  Trajectory is unreal.  The wind was pretty strong into your face....not quite blow your hat off strong, but decent, maybe 20mph or so.  The thing that was most shocking to me was how high the ball went yet still had a lot of distance.  There wasn't any perceptible ballooning, which is something that I've always struggled with from attacking a little steep with a high ball speed.  This is going to be a complete game changer for me living in Texas.

As far as it helping with your driver, it definitely helps.  Do the drill that I posted, really concentrating on the pressure in your right hand.  This will eliminate your slice for a couple of reasons:  you can't come over the top and maintain right hand pressure (think about it...), and the force of your right hand will naturally close the clubface.  With driver, I setup with a little more lean to the right, drop the right foot back a tad, still focusing on turning my left shoulder down and under on the backswing (centered pivot) and then just execute whatever motion it takes to preserve the lag pressure.  I hit driver 15 times, all using the same tee, 14 went straight with maybe a 1 yard draw, one faded about 10 yards off line, but still within the imaginary fairway I was thinking of.  All 15 hit the "fairway".  Haven't touched a driver in a couple of weeks, and have just been working with the tour striker.  I'm normally not nearly that consistent with it, if that gives you any indication.  I can say it definitely helps.  If anything, it may force you to go to more loft because you spin the ball so much less.

Hope this helps.