Why Doesn't Tiger Hit it Farther?

[Zeph]

I don't see why it is weird. He was one of the players that had the speed and swing to hit the ball far with older clubs. New technology has made it easier to hit the ball far, mostly because of larger club heads, but if you hit it in the sweet spot with a high club head speed, the difference in distance is not that big.

The Tour average has gone up, but the best drivers has been hitting it around 290-300 yards all the time.

[golfbarefoot]

I don't think they count 3-woods and such in official driving stats.

That is incorrect.

[colin007]

yah, whatever your drive is on the holes they measure, regardless of what you hit, is whats recorded.

[jamo]

Let me just quote myself from 5 months ago. Tiger is hitting the ball the same distances as he used to, just everyone else does too.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?101

[Dr. Strangeclub]

http://www.golf.com/golf/features/flash/ballguide3.htm

A few things I don't get about the study. Maybe I missed the diagram key or something, but how much roll are we talking about? This could vary the total distances a lot, depending on soft/hard fairways. But what I found curious was that all the balls left the clubface at the same speed with the swing speed at 90mph, which I find oddly uniform. The same launch angle produced the same spin rate, too. I assume it's true, but one would think that ball speed off the clubface would be one of the determining factors, as well as varying spin rates with different covers. Puzzling.

[sean_miller]

im not sure i understand. are you saying that it doesnt seem weird that his distance has stayed the same? hasnt the tour average gone up? hasnt tech increased for tiger as well as the other guys?

No, I think he's still using Nike stuff.

[Divot Tool]

Because he doesn't need to. He's pretty long already. What he needs is to do is put the ball in the short grass more often. Granted if he wanted more distance I'm sure he could reshaft his driver to 46" and swing out of his Nikes.

[Shanks A Million]

Exactly what I was wondering when I watched Duval pull out 3 wood on a 490 yd. Par 4 in the Zurich. He still reached the green in two, but pulled out the shorter stick to stay out of trouble. Kind of makes me wonder what the "real" driving distances are for pros if the "averages" are showing what they are with other clubs thrown into the mix.

Not true, the PGA tour records both Driving Distance, and Total Average Drive. The Driving Distance stat is measured on 2 holes in opposite directions, but the average for all drives shows the length of each measured drive hit.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?317 This is a bit more accurate. It shows Dustin Johnson as the longest hitter on tour, and the only one over 300 yards, followed by Phil, Cabrerra, Watson and Holmes. Since Tiger didn't play enough in 2010, we can look at 2009. Tiger is 35th in total driving distance, at 286.8 yards. Tiger is not a good driver of the ball, and that means his clubhead speed doesn't transfer into distance as well as others. He's 161st on tour for smash factor, at 1.474. So, you can see, he may have the clubhead speed, but he doesn't have the smash factor and the accuracy to translate that into distance.

[jamo]

A few things I don't get about the study. Maybe I missed the diagram key or something, but how much roll are we talking about? This could vary the total distances a lot, depending on soft/hard fairways. But what I found curious was that all the balls left the clubface at the same speed with the swing speed at 90mph, which I find oddly uniform. The same launch angle produced the same spin rate, too. I assume it's true, but one would think that ball speed off the clubface would be one of the determining factors, as well as varying spin rates with different covers. Puzzling.

That is a little weird that the ball speed and spin are the same throughout. My guess is that is an average. As for roll, I assume they were all tested at one time on the same fairway, but roll would vary based on spin and launch angle.

[Awsi Dooger]

The smash factor stat is very revealing. I think Tiger's long game suffers partially because he's straining to keep up with the blasters. It's got to be a system shock, even if subconsciously, to be consistently out driven after decades of top dog. For all the insistence in this thread that Tiger is still a long hitter, with power in reserve, whenever he's paired with a thumper they virtually fly it past him. It happened with Cabrera last week, and late last season with Mickelson and Watney in that foreign event that Phil won. Steve Williams was quoted during the off season that Tiger is no longer one of the longest hitters.

Don't believe for a second that distance isn't important to Tiger. Years ago there was an interview when he was asked if he was ever intimidated on the golf course. Tiger said only once, by a 13 year old who could hit it 300 yards. Tiger was a bit younger. But I've always remembered that answer, and the theme. If Tiger didn't like someone blowing it past him as a young kid, he doesn't like it now, in his prime.

[RC]

His swing changes are not optimized for distance anymore and I think that is an issue that bugs him. I don't know this for a fact, but the the early Tiger was very fixated on being super long -- that I do know. Right now his swing is a bit strange compared to his old power game approach.

[jamo]

His swing changes are not optimized for distance anymore and I think that is an issue that bugs him. I don't know this for a fact, but the the early Tiger was very fixated on being super long -- that I do know. Right now his swing is a bit strange compared to his old power game approach.

Did you read my post? He has not been getting shorter. The year when he hit it the longest was 2005! Not 1997 or 2000 or 2001. He actually averaged more distance in 2009 than 2000 or 2001 or 1997.

Steve Williams was quoted during the off season that Tiger is no longer one of the longest hitters.

That is correct but what does it matter. He was 20th on the PGA TOUR in driving distance last year (out of 189). Whether that is among the leaders or not is up to you but he only isn't #1 because people have caught up to him. Not to mention he pulls 3 wood a lot more than a lot of people, which would bring his average down.

[RC]

But I would maintain the ball and equipment should already be causing an up gain in distance as evidenced by many others who got longer over that period than did Tiger (and new guy showing up almost every week.) I don't buy the "Tiger is longer today" argument as absolute simply because there are many, many longer drivers today than before... and they are using a swing better optimized for their distance. His numbers might be longer, but it just puts him in the back of the super long hitter pack. Go back and hit a 2000 year driver model and ball... things have changed. Are you going to argue Fred Couples did not get longer due to the equipment?

I've heard Tiger over emphasize distance as a some kind of stamp of approval for himself, and know a pro who told me Tiger was upset over some distance comparison from the past. Distance is important to TW, and he is no longer the longest guy around, or the second longest, or third, etc.

[colin007]

Tiger is 35th in total driving distance, at 286.8 yards. Tiger is not a good driver of the ball, and that means his clubhead speed doesn't transfer into distance as well as others. He's 161st on tour for smash factor, at 1.474.

thank you shanks, that is what i was talking about. i look at the guy swinging out of his shoes and it just seems like he doesnt have an efficient strike of the ball. i see others with less effort hitting it farther. that smash factor stat is pretty startling.

[jamo]

But I would maintain the ball and equipment should already be causing an up gain in distance as evidenced by many others who got longer over that period than did Tiger (and new guy showing up almost every week.) I don't buy the "Tiger is longer today" argument as absolute simply because there are many, many longer drivers today than before... and they are using a swing better optimized for their distance. His numbers might be longer, but it just puts him in the back of the super long hitter pack. Go back and hit a 2000 year driver model and ball... things have changed. Are you going to argue Fred Couples did not get longer due to the equipment?

Well, let me again go back to an earlier post of mine. He does not play clubs that are optimized for him. He has said it himself many times: he uses one of (if not the) spinniest balls in golf. The Nike One Platinum (which he used for several years, and may or may not be using today) is a full 11 yards shorter than the Titleist ProV1 and 20 yards shorter than the Taylor Made TP Black. He emphasizes accuracy over distance as much as possible. Here is a link:

http://www.golf.com/golf/features/flash/ballguide3.html

[laconic517]

Well, let me again go back to an earlier post of mine. He does not play clubs that are optimized for him. He has said it himself many times: he uses one of (if not the) spinniest balls in golf. The Nike One Platinum (which he used for several years, and may or may not be using today) is a full 11 yards shorter than the Titleist ProV1 and 20 yards shorter than the Taylor Made TP Black. He emphasizes accuracy over distance as much as possible. Here is a link:

from personal experience the ProV1x and ProV1 always had more spin on them to me. Maybe its just the way I strike the ball..........who knows.

Playing a ball with more spin will hurt accuracy though. At least I would think so. Itll allow him to shape the ball more but if he hits it offline with any kind of spin on it hell be well off compared to others with a ball with less spin.

[jamo]

Playing a ball with more spin will hurt accuracy though. At least I would think so. Itll allow him to shape the ball more but if he hits it offline with any kind of spin on it hell be well off compared to others with a ball with less spin.

Yup, that is why Bridgestone makes a ball that is very low spin (E6 I think?), because it goes less far offline. Tiger values short game spin more than driver accuracy, in this case.

[Trek3]

I asked Phil the same thing. He said it was because Tiger uses inferior equipment. lol