Way to step up Massachusetts

[Leftygolfer]

I like that joke. If this didn't take place the bill would have passed as is. It is horrid peace of legislation that actually increases the cost of healthcare. You can see my above post about changes I think would help our health care system. Honestly, I don't trust anyone in Washington. I like my representative so maybe him, but that is about it (Jeff Davis). It is like a disease for these people. They stay too long and forget why they are there. If you support this administration after the lies he told I feel bad for you. He talked about changing washington and having C-span in these meetings. What happened?? It was a closed door affair where only a few selected people were involved in a 1.3 trillion dollar bill. The stimulus bill was voted on before it was ever read and didn't do anything but line peoples pockets. They could have done so much more for us through tax cuts but that would give us freedom. A sad sad place. We need true leadership and I don't see it anywhere.

[Fatphil]

USPS does all the heavy lifting and the private companines know how to cherry pick the profitable business...same goes for Medicare...they cover all the folks over 65..that's where the biggest costs are. If medicare was offered to everyone for $500/month Humana/BCBS etc will be out of business in 6 months or learn how to offer an honest product. The scam with the private insurance companines is their entire business model is built on denying claims and investing the premiums of healthy 30 year olds and then schuffle you u off at 65 to Medicare...their biggest concern is 45 - 64 when most of us start to break down. They are experts at knowing how to f...you in that age range and there's nothing you can do because they already have your money in advance...the perfect ponzi scam.

To say that Medicare and the USPS is unprofitable is a big duh...of course they are...they got stuck with all the shit while the gravy goes to Viagra ads, million $ bonus', superbowl tickets and strip bars.

[Shanks A Million]

System is not perfect, I get it, no system is. I am willing to have discussions. Do you really believe the system railroaded through congress by Nancy, Harry and the rest of the Democratic crooks was good? With all the payouts, bribes, deferals and the rest?? do you really believe that? you seem like an intelligent person, there is no way you think that was going to work.

No, of course it's a terrible bill! My point is that all we need is a simple government single payer plan to compete with the insurance companies. That's ALL! No one would have to pay a

penny into it unless they used it, and no one would be forced to buy it. It's so simple and clear, congress could never pass it. The Republicans have no scruples and the Democrats have no balls. Same thing year after year. Both parties are, as I said, moderate conservative parties who disagree on minor issues like gay marriage and abortion. These issues are truly insignificant. Real socialist parties would be arguing for nothing less than 100% gender and sexual preference equality, and real conservatives would be arguing for making homosexuality a crime. Most true conservative countries ban homosexuality. 7 nations have the death penalty for homosexual acts, and quite a few carry life sentences (India, for example). My personal favorite is Jamaica, where any homosexual man is sent to a labor camp with other big, sweaty chiseled men. I still can't determine whether they like or dislike the gays. Our petty differences are so puny in comparison. Can they or can they not get married? That's a drop in the bucket.

I like that joke. If this didn't take place the bill would have passed as is. It is horrid peace of legislation that actually increases the cost of healthcare. You can see my above post about changes I think would help our health care system. Honestly, I don't trust anyone in Washington. I like my representative so maybe him, but that is about it (Jeff Davis). It is like a disease for these people. They stay too long and forget why they are there. If you support this administration after the lies he told I feel bad for you. He talked about changing washington and having C-span in these meetings. What happened?? It was a closed door affair where only a few selected people were involved in a 1.3 trillion dollar bill. The stimulus bill was voted on before it was ever read and didn't do anything but line peoples pockets. They could have done so much more for us through tax cuts but that would give us freedom. A sad sad place. We need true leadership and I don't see it anywhere.

Why do so many Americans not trust Washington? This is a democracy! We vote them in, we control their destiny. The course of our country is in our hands. We do not live in a dictatorship. Even England still has a queen. Does no one here know how the system works?

USPS does all the heavy lifting and the private companines know how to cherry pick the profitable business...same goes for Medicare...they cover all the folks over 65..that's where the biggest costs are. If medicare was offered to everyone for $500/month Humana/BCBS etc will be out of business in 6 months or learn how to offer an honest product. The scam with the private insurance companines is their entire business model is built on denying claims and investing the premiums of healthy 30 year olds and then schuffle you u off at 65 to Medicare...their biggest concern is 45 - 64 when most of us start to break down. They are experts at knowing how to f...you in that age range and there's nothing you can do because they already have your money in advance...the perfect ponzi scam.

Absolutely. This is why so many nations do have government systems. The government can run a non profitable industry. This is how civil society works. We have one of the lowest occupational and public safety death rates in the world. This is because our (non profiting) government groups like the NTSB, and other groups make sure your car won't explode in a crash.

Besides, when it comes to taxes, where do we really spend the money? 42% goes to military. 10% goes to inflation! That's right, 10% of your tax dollar goes to pay the debt, money that does nothing, just paying fees and penalties. 26% goes to the current healthcare costs. Like I said earlier, this is the 3rd highest in the world. Only Germans and Icelanders pay more tax for healthcare than we do.

[Fatphil]

yo shanks a million,

i love ya as a homeboy but I disagree with your "not pay a penny unless you use it" comment.

As a card carrying fascist I have no problem paying medicare or obamacare or whatever a fair price for coverage on a monthly basis..my problem is paying 30 years to Humana or Vista or Am Medical or BCBS then (as a golfer) i get a little skin cancer and a high blood pressure pill then they say I can't negociate with another company because they will hit me with a cancer and heart rider...so therefore, I have to pay the 20%/yr increase to my provider or get a new policy for 1/2 the cost but with a heart & cancer rider....so WTF will a 50 year old die from now a days if not cancer or heart disease!!

[iammpspeer]

The most replies to one of my threads ever, thanks everyone. Sorry for misspelling Massachusetts.

[Shanks A Million]

yo shanks a million,

Well, I think you misunderstood. I meant you wouldn't have to pay for the plan unless you

had it. I would favor an opt out program. And I think you misunderstand the concept of fascism, even for a joke.

As a card carrying fascist I have no problem paying medicare or obamacare or whatever a fair price for coverage on a monthly basis..

Fascists are vehemently right wing both economically and socially, and pro corporation. You may be confused between Fascism and Nazism. Nazism was an economically centrist platform with the same social values as fascism. The Nazis supported social programs to some degree. The economically left wing version of Fascism and Nazism is called Totalitarianism. Most people confuse totalitarianism (extreme right wing parties who were communist, I.E. Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc) for communism. Communism is merely the economic platform of these parties. All three, Fascism, Nazism (A.K.A. Nationalism in most countries), and Totalitarianism are all extreme right wing groups with different economic beliefs.

That's like saying, "As a card carrying communist, I have no problem with lazziez faire capitalism."

The most replies to one of my threads ever, thanks everyone. Sorry for misspelling Massachusetts.

It's fitting a thread about politicians has this as it's first visual:

[jamo]

My point is that all we need is a simple government single payer plan to compete with the insurance companies. That's ALL! No one would have to pay a

Thats all we need, but like you said, much too simple to pass. ugh

Why do so many Americans not trust Washington? This is a democracy! We vote them in, we control their destiny. The course of our country is in our hands. We do not live in a dictatorship. Even England still has a queen. Does no one here know how the system works?

My favorite stat in politics: Approval rating for Congress as a whole is perennially somewhere in the 20% range, while when they poll every stats's own Congressmen and Senators, their approval rating are in the 60-70% range.

Absolutely. This is why so many nations do have government systems. The government can run a non profitable industry. This is how civil society works. We have one of the lowest occupational and public safety death rates in the world. This is because our (non profiting) government groups like the NTSB, and other groups make sure your car won't explode in a crash.

Exactly.

[Lefty-Golfer]

Im not going to get into whether or not a republican getting elected in Mass is a good thing. (need I remind you all that the deregulation of the banks which the Republicans pushed for is what got our economy in the mess it is currently in?) I know that conversation wont end well. I will say though that if you guys think that it going to make any difference which political party is in office, Ive got news for you. It wont make a bit of difference.

Yea....that was what caused it. all by itself, the Carter / clinton "everybody must own home" was huge as well...and there was much much more.

The litttle problem our current democratic house, senate and President have with spending...you know the one where they have pissed away trillions in just 12 months....Jeez I didn't like Bush. i thought he spent money like drunken democrat on spring break. LOL I was so wrong. We have pro's in charge now....it is very different and very sad.

[Lefty-Golfer]

WOW just when i thought you and i could agree on things...Washington is a bunch of thieves. Most of them are failed business people who can't make it in the real world. They are professional leaches who mainly care about taking care of themselves...if they can help a few others along way good.

They have stolen moeny(social security), misused funds (pork projects) been complacent (natiuonal security), abused power (to many examples to start to mention) come close to bankrupting our nation, produced a debt load of approx. 70k per child (in the last 18 months), created a culture of waste (prevaling wages on governement projects), created generations of welfare families that are now just waiting for good lod uncle sam AKA Washington to pay for them(the New Deal, created by the worst President the country will ever have...unless Barak gets 8 years it will be close then, the abuse welfare system)....and these are just off the top of my head... Why exactly would I trust washington??

[Leftygolfer]

Do you know that most medicare plans are administored by Humana??? Seems like if the government can do such a good job they would be able to take care of there own business. You think the only reason our health care cost because of the insurance companies? Give me a break. So much money is wasted on administration in HC bc of the goverment. They make it hard as hell for doctors to do business.

Look up fraud and medicare. It is around 200 billion a year is lost in fraud. 95% of all new medical technology comes out of the US. We have the greatest health care in the world. We have horrid diets, don't excercise, yet we still live longer than ever.

There is no reason for the USPS to lose money. They can make different decisions to be a expense neutral part of the government yet they don't. Deliver mail 3 days a week if need be. We don't need to get our junk mail and bills 6 days a week.

There is an old classic saying, "If you are young and not a liberal you don't have a heart, If you are old and not a consertive you don't have a brain". I don't know who said this but it always stuck with me. I used to be young and stupid (also thought I was a democrat), then I got wise, thought about what I cared about and obviously I am very conservative. It actually makes sense and gives us more freedom unstead of less. We have the greatest standard of living in the world and it isn't by accident.

[Elvisliveson]

There is no reason for the USPS to lose money. They can make different decisions to be a expense neutral part of the government yet they don't. Deliver mail 3 days a week if need be. We don't need to get our junk mail and bills 6 days a week.

The reason the USPS doesn't do that is the government won't let them. The USPS wanted to stop Saturday delivery and cut out about 12, 000 rural post offices serving only a few people, which would save them close to one billion a year. But, no, that wouldn't be fair to the few morons who CHOSE to live in those podunk towns. And the postal workers union was afraid of the job loss if Saturday delivery was cut out, so of course the govt said no.

It was Winston Churchill who made that quote. But it's more to do with what these teenagers and twenty somethings just learned in high school and college from ideology driven instructors. I remember when my younger brother was in college and was railing against the "evil insurance companies" that his professors were telling him about. Now 40 and having lived in the real world for more than 15 years, he's just right of Mark Levin.

[iacas]

Why do so many Americans not trust Washington? This is a democracy! We vote them in, we control their destiny. The course of our country is in our hands. We do not live in a dictatorship. Even England still has a queen. Does no one here know how the system works?

We vote 'em in, but we really don't have much choice. Pick this guy you really hate or pick this guy you hate just a little bit less.

I'm going to quote my personal blog on this:

I continue to despise the entire party system. Screw parties! Who needs 'em? All they do is force people to vote in ways on certain issues contrary to how they feel simply because they need support for something they believe in later. It's created a system where someone who values small(er) government, for example, is also a God-fearing nut who can't stand the thought of abortion. I tend to be more Republican than Democrat (and more Libertarian than either), but I'm a mix of all things, and I think our politicians are as well and should be allowed to as such. The party system has failed. It's given us John McCain vs. Barack Obama. George Bush vs. John Kerry. And a House and Senate that votes pretty much down party lines and almost always has. Yippee.

[Fatphil]

The most replies to one of my threads ever, thanks everyone. Sorry for misspelling Massachusetts.

this is really funny...you didn't even get your own joke!! Coakley's campaign was raked over the coals because they misspelled Massachusetts on their literature...they actually spelled it different than you did (Massachusettes) yeh you read it right "massa"

so.... iammpspeer you're a funny guy and you didn't even know it!!

[pingman]

eh, i just live here, politics aren't what George Washington wanted it to be. Too bad, we would've been a BETTER country, I believe.

[jamo]

There is an old classic saying, "If you are young and not a liberal you don't have a heart, If you are old and not a consertive you don't have a brain".

If you're old and conservative (and got your way) you also don't have Medicare.

I'm going to quote my personal

I do agree with this though. George Washington, arguably the most beloved president ever, warned against several things upon leaving, but the one he emphasized the most was that he was scared that the US would slip into a party-based political system. And the second he left office, the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans (later the Democrats of today) battled it out for the presidency.

[Leftygolfer]

I'm 30. I don't want to do away with Medicare. I just don't want to pay for your insurance if you choose to not get a real job when you get out of school. I don't enjoy going to work everyday but with that chose comes benifits (my health insurance is about 40 dollars a month out of pocket pre tax). Medicare is going bankrupt right now and the bill that just got killed by what this whole thread was started about would have cut that funding by billions (well except where the senators had some sweet heart deal like florida where their vote got bought).

Jamo, Did you vote on Tuesday?

[allin]

The bill isn't going to pass. I don't agree that the government does things well. Look at our postal service, it losses money every year. Does UPS or Fedex? Medicare/Medicaid fraud is rampid. Private insurance, it doesn't happen hardly at all (my wife works for an insurance company, I asked). When did a public project come in under budget and on time? Public schools are terrible for much of this country unless you buy in the right district.

Everytime I see this argument I am astonished by the complete inability of so many people to apply even the most basic standards of logic to their arguments. Does united parcel service set their rates at the amount they need to receive to make money. of course. The postal services rates are set, to save taxpayers money, not make money. Even then to compare a shriniking business, mail to private businesses, Chrysler, steel, newspapers etc. proves that changes in economics, technology etc are the real issue. Goverment services exist because the private sector can't or is unsuitable, or to protect the public. In my state there were multiple studies of services, after multiple studies determined that services were being delivered at a higher level with 1/2 the staffing level of equivalent private sector services, they just stopped doing studies. Most studies of medicaid show that fraud to qualify for medicaid is very low, less than 2 percent. After all the largest dollar amount of fraud by far is from medical providers, don't you think they steal from private insurance as well. Most states fund medicaid now and the services is actually provided through insurance companie. The public projects arguement doesn't hold water either. The companies providing the services, all private are the ones who fail to get the projects completed close to their own bids. It is the private companies such as wall street banks, who are really the bigger problem. For goverment services in general, public assistance, irs, etc comparing them to private businesses is a joke. Goverment budgets are set by saying this is how much we want to spend, staff, equipment etc. Now get it done. Rarely do the budgets have any real connection to the service expected. In business you have control over your suppliers, prices, even who you want your customers to be. Public employees must serve all. I receive verbal abuse on a daily basis that no one in the private sector would ever be expected to take. I gurarantee that the great majority of people who criticize goverment and its employees would not last a month doing what I do. Acting as if the goverment is the problem and is the enemy just shows complet ignorance.

[doof_dizzler]

Everytime I see this argument I am astonished by the complete inability of so many people to apply even the most basic standards of logic to their arguments. Does united parcel service set their rates at the amount they need to receive to make money. of course. The postal services rates are set, to save taxpayers money, not make money. Even then to compare a shriniking business, mail to private businesses, Chrysler, steel, newspapers etc. proves that changes in economics, technology etc are the real issue. Goverment services exist because the private sector can't or is unsuitable, or to protect the public. In my state there were multiple studies of services, after multiple studies determined that services were being delivered at a higher level with 1/2 the staffing level of equivalent private sector services, they just stopped doing studies. Most studies of medicaid show that fraud to qualify for medicaid is very low, less than 2 percent. After all the largest dollar amount of fraud by far is from medical providers, don't you think they steal from private insurance as well. Most states fund medicaid now and the services is actually provided through insurance companie. The public projects arguement doesn't hold water either. The companies providing the services, all private are the ones who fail to get the projects completed close to their own bids. It is the private companies such as wall street banks, who are really the bigger problem. For goverment services in general, public assistance, irs, etc comparing them to private businesses is a joke. Goverment budgets are set by saying this is how much we want to spend, staff, equipment etc. Now get it done. Rarely do the budgets have any real connection to the service expected. In business you have control over your suppliers, prices, even who you want your customers to be. Public employees must serve all. I receive verbal abuse on a daily basis that no one in the private sector would ever be expected to take. I gurarantee that the great majority of people who criticize goverment and its employees would not last a month doing what I do. Acting as if the goverment is the problem and is the enemy just shows complet ignorance.

Hilarious! The best is the part about having to take abuse from people. Really amusing sense of irony there!

Private enterprise has to put up with whatever the public chooses to dish out, it's the cost of doing business. Those that work in a govt bureaucracy are exempt from reality and the constraints ofthe free market, protected by various codes/standards/contracts that a private business would/could never implement. When I deal with the doctor's office, or auto licensing bureau, or some other civil servant, they have a sign that says something like "This inclusive and respectful workplace does not tolerate any disrespect or loud voices....." If we put a sign like that up at my work, we'd be forced to deal with the crap and abuse that people would heap on us, rightfully ridiculing us. It might even be discriminatory for a private workplace to try to implement such a code in Canada. I'm sad that we live in a society where there are 2 distinct classes of citizens, those who own or work for private enterprise, paying the high taxes and just plugging away creating the wealth that society needs to provide essential services AND those who work for the govt, spending up said accumulated wealth in a union protected job, no economic forces can affect their jobs or political power, with a greatly inflated sense of self-worth. My ex inlaws were all working union govt jobs, so the clash between their sloth and my entrepreneurial spirit was a major force of strife in my life at that time. Arrogant liberal fools that they were.