Is false advertising = cheating.

[zeg]

I think you have parts of the copyright law here right, but not completely. Putting a Nike logo on a Titleist ball

That's not consistent with my understanding of patent law. The Titleist patents would cover constructing a golf ball with a particular design or using a particular method. Nike is not in violation of this by sticking a label on a ball that Titleist produced. Once you sell a product, you've pretty much lost your right to restrict what other people do with it. After all, Titleist has made their profit that the patent is intended to protect---there's no way Nike could undercut them since they've got to pay Titleist for the ball.

It's possible there's some provision that applies here, but it's not "clearly illegal." If you can back that up, I'd be very interested to know. Also, copyright law has nothing to do with this, it's a trademark issue. Titleist has the right to keep Nike from misusing the Titleist mark and if they can claim that the dimple pattern is a trademark , then there might be an issue. That's also far from clear, though, and I think it'd be pretty difficult to argue that a dimple pattern is clearly recognizable to a consumer so it could cause confusion, which is what they'd have to show.

Think about it for a minute - the Nike golf brand would be devastated it became public knowledge (I mean REAL knowledge, not the speculation or heresay taking place here) that the golf balls with the swoosh were not really Nike. And if it were true, it would be too easy to verify as others have pointed out. Cut open a lost ball by Tiger or one he gives away, and the truth is revealed instantly. Sorry, but I just cannot accept that this practice is actually taking place - there is way too much money at risk here and this is not a secret that can be hidden easily.

I'm also quite skeptical that it's going on. I could perhaps believe that it may have happened for a time, perhaps if Tiger were transitioning to a new ball, but I don't think it's likely to be a continuous practice. But that's just my gut feeling.

[Shanks A Million]

Why is anyone even entertaining the idea that Tiger is playing a ProV1? It's just asinine. He has one of the largest companies on the planet with nearly unlimited resources who will make a ball out of yogurt with polka dots if he asks them to. Lets get serious for a minute here, the man openly plays a Titleist putter, so why would he hide the ball? This whole discussion is ludicrous.

[ET-Taylor]

If titliest didn't agree to this they would lose out on the ball tiger uses and still not gain any ball prestige so you might as well take the money

[nike_golf]

I think you have parts of the copyright law here right, but not completely. Putting a Nike logo on a Titleist ball

You went into much more detial, but the jist of what you're saying here, is what I've been saying all along. As I'm sure you're well aware of. Good post.

When I hear the stuff like Tiger plays ProV1 I basically dismiss it is fairy tale stuff. There's just no plausible reason for him to do that. The fact that Titleist would have to agree to let Nike brand the ball as one of theirs, and the mess w/ patent infringements, people being able to prove the real ball he's using, and the potential big time mess that would occur if it was true he was using a ProV just makes it almost impossible to believe. Throw in the fact that one of the biggest athletic companies in the world would make him any ball that he wanted. I don't think people are deliberately lieing when telling third person accounts of what ball Tiger is using, I just think someone along the line is either flat out mistaken or possible lieing themselves. Like I asked of the guy who said he knew a PGA official who said he was using ProV's. Well, how did that official know that if the ball was marked Nike? Did the dimple pattern tell him it was a ProV? (Very doubtful) Did he swipe one, cut it open, and reveal the "truth"? (Again, very doubtful) If Tiger was really using a ProV, it wouldn't be a secret.

[nike_golf]

If titliest didn't agree to this they would lose out on the ball tiger uses and still not gain any ball prestige so you might as well take the money

No. The whole idea of him using a Titleist ball is absurd.

[Clambake]

You went into much more detial, but the jist of what you're saying here, is what I've been saying all along. As I'm sure you're well aware of.

Exactly. I wasn't trying to raise any new point on this other than trying to get others to consider the motivations and ramifications of what they are speculating upon. It is sometimes easy to get swept up in the rumormongering, but if one sometimes steps back and asks "why?" or "what would happen?" it helps reveal the supposed "facts" for the fiction they are.

News Flash for think that Tiger plays rebranded Titleists: No he doesn't. The moon landing really happened. There aren't alien spacecraft flying around Area 51. And if you keep sailing due west you will NOT fall off the edge of the earth. Really.

[nike_golf]

Exactly. I wasn't trying to raise any new point on this other than trying to get others to consider the motivations and ramifications of what they are speculating upon. It is sometimes easy to get swept up in the rumormongering, but if one sometimes steps back and asks "why?" or "what would happen?" it helps reveal the supposed "facts" for the fiction they are.

It is kind of a "conspiracy thoery" type of attitude going on w/ this. As you pointed out.

Like you said, if people would stop and think about it, I would think they would realize that not only is it not plausible, it just doesn't make any sense.

[Pat007]

I recall reading several years ago that there is someone at each tournament who inspects each player's bag and writes down the brand of clubs and balls he/she is using. This is to ensure that the player's contract with the manufacturer is not being violated. It is not necessarily to ensure what head cover is on the driver, for example. It is to make sure that the player is using whatever driver he has agreed to use per his contract. I occasionally play golf with a USGA rules official who is inside the ropes and can see all the players' clubs. He said I would truly be surprised how many TaylorMade driver head covers are covering a different brand of driver.

This is called a Darrell survey. It is conducted on the 1st tee of every PGA tournament and the results are sent off to people in the golf industry. If you want, PM me and next one I get I can send to you (I work at a course and am on Titleist staff, so am privvy to this info). It's a way for the manufacturers to toot their own horn and say '' 84.6% of all players in the field of the Hope Classic played Titleist balls...'' and other stats like that, not to see if their equipment contracts are being violated. Every player that has a staff contract can opt out of and their is a clause that lets them play their old equipment (ex: keeping an old putter).

[colin007]

I can confirm that this is indeed true, although the actual makeup of the ball is unknown, they are indeed, Nike One balls marked with "Tiger" and the number "18". They come in a plain white sleeve with no markings on it. Apart from that, I think they're the same as regular Nike One balls. He draws a line on them freehand on the first tee, to gauge his nerves.

dude, theres pics out there of him using the plastic thingy that helps you draw the straight line. where do you get this info from?

[Shanks A Million]

dude, theres pics out there of him using the plastic thingy that helps you draw the straight line. where do you get this info from?

I read it on a golf forum... Guess it's not wise to trust these things.

This is called a Darrell survey. It is conducted on the 1st tee of every PGA tournament and the results are sent off to people in the golf industry. If you want, PM me and next one I get I can send to you (I work at a course and am on Titleist staff, so am privvy to this info). It's a way for the manufacturers to toot their own horn and say '' 84.6% of all players in the field of the Hope Classic played Titleist balls...'' and other stats like that, not to see if their equipment contracts are being violated. Every player that has a staff contract can opt out of and their is a clause that lets them play their old equipment (ex: keeping an old putter).

I always thought they were on the 10th tee?

[Randy4h]

This is called a Darrell survey. It is conducted on the 1st tee of every PGA tournament and the results are sent off to people in the golf industry. If you want, PM me and next one I get I can send to you (I work at a course and am on Titleist staff, so am privvy to this info). It's a way for the manufacturers to toot their own horn and say '' 84.6% of all players in the field of the Hope Classic played Titleist balls...'' and other stats like that, not to see if their equipment contracts are being violated. Every player that has a staff contract can opt out of and their is a clause that lets them play their old equipment (ex: keeping an old putter).

As one who is privy to the Darrell Survey, and on the Titleist staff, it must be amusing to observe the panic that has ensued from some members since I mentioned what I had heard about Tiger and Titleist balls. You have stayed above the fray so far, but let me ask a hypothetical question. Would it not be good for Titleist if they provided Tiger with Pro V1s? Beside the money, it would prevent Nike from crowing after a Tiger win that he plays the One Tour ball, etc.

Again, I was only repeating what I had been told. I have no first hand knowledge what ball Tiger uses, but I have no reason to doubt my friend's word. Chill out, people.

[nike_golf]

As one who is privy to the Darrell Survey, and on the Titleist staff, it must be amusing to observe the panic that has ensued from some members since I mentioned what I had heard about Tiger and Titleist balls. You have stayed above the fray so far, but let me ask a hypothetical question. Would it not be good for Titleist if they provided Tiger with Pro V1s? Beside the money, it would prevent Nike from crowing after a Tiger win that he plays the One Tour ball, etc.

I'm as chill as it gets. You used the word, "panic". Well, no, that's not the correct word to use.

I would say common sense. You fail to answer the obvious questions about how and why of the subject. I know that you're just reporting what you've been told, but like I've said, using a little common sense says that it's dead wrong. And I fail to understand the logic of the argument that it's good for Titleist that Tiger uses a ProV ball. Why would it be good if everyone sees the Nike symbols on the ball and thus believes its a Nike ball? Oh, because Nike pays Titleist for the right to do that? C'mon. That's silly.

[nike_golf]

I read it on a golf forum... Guess it's not wise to trust these things.

I told you many posts ago that this very site has a pic of Tiger using the plastic marking device to mark his ball.

And yes, that's a good reason why you can't believe everything you hear on the internet. It's almost worse that you repeat something to others that you don't know to be true or not. Like how Tiger plays a ProV ball w/ the Nike logo on it. :D

[Randy4h]

And I fail to understand the logic of the argument that it's good for Titleist that Tiger uses a ProV ball. Why would it be good if everyone sees the Nike symbols on the ball and thus believes its a Nike ball?

I had the same questions. This is all just a fun "what-if" exercise, but here is a thought:

As you know, Tiger had a contract with Acushnet before Nike came on the scene. So he probably had been playing Titleist balls his whole life. Nike was new to the golf ball game at that time and couldn't offer a viable ball, but they certainly wanted Tiger to play a Nike ball. They advertised that they worked with Tiger to develop the One Tour ball, which he was to play. Maybe he did play it, maybe he didn't. But suppose he did use it and was unsatisfied with the results. So Tiger goes back to Nike and tells them he wants to play the Pro V1 again. Nike says "No way, maybe we screwed up when we agreed to let you continue with your Cameron putter, but no way will we allow a close-up slow motion of a Pro V1 going in the hole when you are putting . We marketed those One Tour balls, and we need you to play them!" Tiger refuses... In this scenario, what would be a "common sense" solution? Exactly what my friend told me. Tiger plays the ball he wants, Nike gets exposure for their logo if not the ability to advertise that Tiger plays their ball anymore, Titleist gets cash if not the ability to advertise that Tiger plays their ball. Or, like several have mentioned, there must be hundreds of balls out there that Tiger has given away during or after tournaments. Do they say One Tour or One TW on them? Or do they just have the swoosh and TIGER printed on them? How about the dimple pattern? Titleist and Nike have unique patterns. I just went out to the garage and compared a Nike One TW, One Black and One Platinum against a Pro V1 and Pro V1x. Different pattern. No one on this forum knows for sure, or hasn't come forward yet. If only Tiger would have taken questions today.

[nike_golf]

I had the same questions. This is all just a fun "what-if" exercise, but here is a thought:

We can play what if's all day.

Your logic about the Titleist ball still makes absolutely no sense, however. It's just not logical. If Tiger didn't want to play the Nike ball, either way back then or even today, Nike would MAKE a ball for him. We're talking about a multi billion dollar company and Tiger is it's biggest name. I'm pretty sure they won't have a problem coming up w/ a ball that is just as good as a ProV, or at the very least, comparable. Let's not kid ourselves. You speak of the dimple patterns. And that part I agree w/ you about. They are all different. So, what exactly was your point about that? If Tiger was using a ProV, it would be pretty easy to take one of his balls and compare the dimple pattern to a ProV to see if they match. So, proving that Tiger is using a ProV shouldn't be that hard to do, and if he was, it wouldn't be a secret. Also, you speak of a Nike One TW. Now, I know my Nike equipment pretty darn well. But for the life of me, I have no idea what a Nike One TW ball is. Can you enlighten me on that?

[Shanks A Million]

Also, you speak of a Nike One TW. Now, I know my Nike equipment pretty darn well. But for the life of me, I have no idea what a Nike One TW ball is.

It's the Nike One Tiger spec ball. It's the custom ball they make for Tiger. It's on the Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2006 game too.

[Randy4h]

We can play what if's all day.

OK, Spock. I'll be logical. Nike makes premium golf balls, as does Titleist, Callaway, Srixon, Bridgestone. Each has different characteristics based on each unique design. Back around 2005, Nike advertised that they worked with Tiger to develop a ball for him to use. Maybe he still uses it, maybe he doesn't. For my story to be true, Tiger would have to have decided that Titleist makes a better ball for him than Nike. Given that the vast majority of PGA tour players use Titleist balls, this would be his "logical" choice.

You're right. If anyone has a recent ball from Tiger (sign boys, walking scorers, etc.) it would be easy to verify. Regarding the One TW ball, I'm looking at one right now. Instead of One Tour or One Black or One Platinum, it says One TW. I doubt this particular was made specifically for Tiger because I found it in the woods of my home course on one of my ball hunting expeditions. I don't recall Tiger playing here recently; I think he's in Mississippi.

[nike_golf]

It's the Nike One Tiger spec ball. It's the custom ball they make for Tiger. It's on the Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2006 game too.

???????????????? From what year? Like I said, I know Nike equipment probably as good as the people that sell it, and I know there has NEVER been a commercially sold One TW ball in the past three or four years for sure. Until now, I've honestly never heard of it.

But as long as it was in the video game, I guess that makes it true. ??????? I don't doubt that Nike probably DID make a custom ball for Tiger, even as late as 2006. However, unless someone comes up w/ some kind of proof somewhere, myself and people I know who are in the "know" about these things, believe that Tiger plays a ball that you and I can buy right off the shelf. He has been for at least three years now.