Swinging fast vs. Swinging hard

[Woodtek]

Played yesterday, 39 degrees but no wind. I worked on trying to slow down my swing, stopping for a second, staying connected, so forth and so on. It seems I have at least two different swings, my "hybrid/iron swing" and my "driver" swing. My hybrid swing is much smoother, and yesterday much more accurate. It seems that when I get to the driver I have that "KILL IT" syndrome. Thing is that I've seen the positive results of being easy with my irons and hybrids, no loss at all in distance, actually probably longer but can't seem to convince myself with the driver. I'll make 2-3 nice easy practice swings and then step up to the ball see red. I've hit into my net with a swing speed radar and seen the difference, quite a bit actually, but oh no can't do that. I've only played a few years, but I see first hand how mental this game is.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Two things about a driver. First, it's designed to hit the ball a long way, so you just get it going and stay out of its way. Second, the driver in your hands will go a certain distance, just like your 8-iron will. There's no point in trying to hit it as far as you can. Hit it as far as it's supposed to go. Putting your 8-iron swing on a driver isn't a bad idea for starters.

As for swinging fast, to me that means swinging the clubhead fast. That doesn't mean my body swings fast. I get my greatest clubhead speed by starting my downswing with my lower body only, keeping my upper body in the same position until my hands get to about hip height, (see illustration in Hogan's Five Lessons , page 95) then letting the momentum of the swing release everything into the ball. The more relaxed and unforced about all this I am, the faster the clubhead moves. The key for me is in keeping a constant tempo with my hip turn during the downswing. If the hips turn too fast, the clubhead gets left behind and clubhead speed never gets a chance to build up.

If you want to hit the ball hard, you have to pour your right side into the ball. You can see how the pros do this if you get to watch them swing live. It doesn't come across so much on TV. Tom Lehman is a great example of someone who comes into the ball hard.

[BigBaffy]

I just watched a free video from Hank Haney, where he says if you swing slow, you'll never break a two-digit handicap. I'm not sure I agree with that, because I think it would depend on the course you play, how accurate you are, and how good your short game is.

My question is, can you swing "fast" by taking it back slow? The best thing that happened to my swing was slowing down my swing.

Slowing down my swing, or "playing within myself" as Arnie and Jack and a bunch of other pros have said in the past, definitely improved my accuracy and probably my distance too.

So, how does swinging fast make that better?

Also, can anyone give me a definitive answer as to what the difference is between swinging hard and swinging fast? If I want to get somewhere fast, I pretty much have to put more effort into it than I would if I wanted to get there more slowly. Jack and Tom Watson both talk about being told to swing hard, or "hit the ball hard", and they did pretty well on tour.

So, what's the answer?

[iacas]

  BigBaffy said:

I just watched a free video from Hank Haney, where he says if you swing slow, you'll never break a two-digit handicap. I'm not sure I agree with that, because I think it would depend on the course you play, how accurate you are, and how good your short game is.

You could play a course that's 4000 yards… the problem is, the course rating is gonna be like 61 so you'd better occasionally shoot in the 60s to have a single digit handicap or so.

Handicap absolutely corresponds - fairly strongly at that - to clubhead speed. Distance is a HUGE advantage.

  BigBaffy said:

My question is, can you swing "fast" by taking it back slow? The best thing that happened to my swing was slowing down my swing.

Yes, but typically a 3:1 ratio is good, and many people make a backswing that's too slow.

  BigBaffy said:

Slowing down my swing, or "playing within myself" as Arnie and Jack and a bunch of other pros have said in the past, definitely improved my accuracy and probably my distance too.

So, how does swinging fast make that better?

They swung plenty fast, so their feeling of "playing within themselves" still swung the club fast, fast, fast.

  BigBaffy said:

Also, can anyone give me a definitive answer as to what the difference is between swinging hard and swinging fast?

No, not really. It's the connotative meaning.

[mvmac]

  iacas said:

They swung plenty fast, so their feeling of "playing within themselves" still swung the club fast, fast, fast.

Feel ain't real

[BigBaffy]

The 3:1 ratio, that's three count back and one through impact? That's probably pretty close to what I try to do.

I don't hit it far (270 is the farthest I've ever driven a ball on a course) but I'm pretty happy with my line (I can usually find my ball, somewhere around 240). I attribute that to slowing down my swing.

It seems like the speed Mr. Haney's talking about is through impact, but I find if I try to turn my wrists over at impact, I mess up my swing. I know I do turn over somewhere around there, but TRYing to do it faster I think wood have me hooking or slicing all over the place.

But I appreciate your insight.

[Lihu]

  BigBaffy said:

The 3:1 ratio, that's three count back and one through impact? That's probably pretty close to what I try to do.

There are measuring devices like swing byte that can measure your cadence, but I'm not sure that the exact number is all that important. My instructor (one of the previous posters) did not have me do any tempo training. All he wants to make sure is that I do not feel "rushed" at any point in my swing if that helps at all. . .

BTW, 270 yards is pretty long.

[BigBaffy]

No, it does. That's pretty much what I try to do, exhale and let the ball get in the way of my swing, rather than my swing stop at the ball. I know it's been said a lot, but getting that face square at impact really is the whole deal.

[iacas]

  BigBaffy said:

It seems like the speed Mr. Haney's talking about is through impact, but I find if I try to turn my wrists over at impact, I mess up my swing. I know I do turn over somewhere around there, but TRYing to do it faster I think wood have me hooking or slicing all over the place.

Don't worry too much about "turning your wrists over at impact."

[joekelly]

I watched that Nicklaus/Player video.  How fascinating, the good old days.  I never see periscopes at tourneys these days.  Jack was pretty wild wasn't he?  And who gave Player putting lessons?  What a joke-stroke.

[BigBaffy]

He did OK with that "joke stroke".

Wish I could putt a tenth as good as he did.

[Dr Hook]

As long as it's a controlled tempo and the mechanics and swing plane are on tap along with rotation and release then swing from your aszes. I do and I pipe 320 yard drives all the time. My takeaway and transition through hip thrust naturally brings my hands down thus rocking deep drives every time.

[Hammer 4]

  BigBaffy said:

He did OK with that "joke stroke".

Wish I could putt a tenth as good as he did.

Yep, he only won 165 tourney's.....

[trickyputt]

  BigBaffy said:

No, it does. That's pretty much what I try to do, exhale and let the ball get in the way of my swing, rather than my swing stop at the ball. I know it's been said a lot, but getting that face square at impact really is the whole deal.

What you may be looking for is sometimes called a "twirl", at least I have heard that from people trying to transition from arm or upperbody swinging "hard" to what is considered a golf swing. We call it a turn but that sounds slow, and its a deceptive term in that regard. To swing fast, you must turn well and not get your body parts in the way, which robs energy. Thats what the discussions are going on about around here when they talk about A3 or A5. They are good positions to help you "get your twirl on".

[BigBaffy]

  Lihu said:

There are measuring devices like swing byte that can measure your cadence, but I'm not sure that the exact number is all that important. My instructor (one of the previous posters) did not have me do any tempo training. All he wants to make sure is that I do not feel "rushed" at any point in my swing if that helps at all. . .

BTW, 270 yards is pretty long.

Thanks, but the 270 was one of those "How the Hell did I do that" stokes that happens about once every 5 years or so. Nowhere near what I usually hit.

That's why I can remember it :-).

[Lihu]

  BigBaffy said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

There are measuring devices like swing byte that can measure your cadence, but I'm not sure that the exact number is all that important. My instructor (one of the previous posters) did not have me do any tempo training. All he wants to make sure is that I do not feel "rushed" at any point in my swing if that helps at all. . .

BTW, 270 yards is pretty long.

Thanks, but the 270 was one of those "How the Hell did I do that" stokes that happens about once every 5 years or so. Nowhere near what I usually hit.

That's why I can remember it :-).

If you could do it once, you should be able to hit close to that more times with all the necessary swing fixes of course!

[JonMA1]

@BigBaffy - I can't find the post (might be here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/75436/how-to-grip-a-golf-club-commonalities-of-a-functional-golf-grip ), but it came from either @iacas or @mvmac regarding keeping a firm grip with the fingers but relaxing the wrists and arms.

I haven't figured it out yet by any means, but by trying different grip pressures and attempting to relax my wrists and arms, I've experienced some surprising results on the simulator this winter - relative to my normal distances - and it felt like I was swinging easier.

Maybe we incorrectly associate power with how hard we work our arms??? Most of the better players seem to agree that too much arm tension robs a golfer of speed.

[Lihu]

  JonMA1 said:

@BigBaffy - I can't find the post (might be here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/75436/how-to-grip-a-golf-club-commonalities-of-a-functional-golf-grip), but it came from either @iacas or @mvmac regarding keeping a firm grip with the fingers but relaxing the wrists and arms.

I haven't figured it out yet by any means, but by trying different grip pressures and attempting to relax my wrists and arms, I've experienced some surprising results on the simulator this winter - relative to my normal distances - and it felt like I was swinging easier.

Maybe we incorrectly associate power with how hard we work our arms??? Most of the better players seem to agree that too much arm tension robs a golfer of speed.

And decent strikes, don't forget that!