My Swing (Stretch)

[14ledo81]

Logman, there is always room for improvement. While Stretch is a much better golfer than me, I am sure he still wants to improve.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Logman, there is always room for improvement. While Stretch is a much better golfer than me, I am sure he still wants to improve.

QFT.

I'm scratch and I'm still working on improving. Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy are still working on improving.

And, logman, some people enjoy the improvement process.

[logman]

MMMmmm, but what's "improvement"? Is improvement building a pretty swing? Is it to have a swing that looks "correct"? Does "correct" equal  better scoring? I just think there's a big jump in logic there. does correct equal better scoring????

Don't get me wrong, I want improvement ......I just think that video coaching is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. And when you get to the level of golf that Stretch is playing at the returns are neither here nor there.

Lots of folks on here use the default position of "if the pros do it then we should" and vice versa. But if there was any truth in the idea that video coaching and correction was hugely beneficial then wouldn't we expect to see a convergence of styles into a generic style. I'm talking pros here. But while we've got Jason Duffner, John Daly, Dustin Johnson,Bubba, Holmes playing the same game then what the hell are we trying to "correct"???

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

MMMmmm, but what's "improvement"? Is improvement building a pretty swing?

Hitting the ball both better and more consistently.

Originally Posted by logman

I just think that video coaching is a good example of the law of diminishing returns

No, the improvements just get smaller and improvement comes in smaller and smaller steps. PGA Tour players still take lessons, use coaching, launch monitors, etc. That's just the nature of the beast. Tiger Woods isn't going to shave 10 strokes from his game in a year - a guy shooting 110 can do that in a month.

Originally Posted by logman

But if there was any truth in the idea that video coaching and correction was hugely beneficial then wouldn't we expect to see a convergence of styles into a generic style. I'm talking pros here. But while we've got Jason Duffner, John Daly, Dustin Johnson,Bubba, Holmes playing the same game then what the hell are we trying to "correct"???

Logic failure: because of video coaching everyone should have the same swing? And because we don't see pros with the same swing style, video coaching is a failure?

That doesn't make sense. And video instruction does not at all come with the constraint of "make every player swing the same way." Not at all.

[jamo]

MMMmmm, but what's "improvement"? Is improvement building a pretty swing? Is it to have a swing that looks "correct"? Does "correct" equal  better scoring? I just think there's a big jump in logic there. does correct equal better scoring???? Don't get me wrong, I want improvement ......I just think that video coaching is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. And when you get to the level of golf that Stretch is playing at the returns are neither here nor there. Lots of folks on here use the default position of "if the pros do it then we should" and vice versa. But if there was any truth in the idea that video coaching and correction was hugely beneficial then wouldn't we expect to see a convergence of styles into a generic style. I'm talking pros here. But while we've got Jason Duffner, John Daly, Dustin Johnson,Bubba, Holmes playing the same game then what the hell are we trying to "correct"???

Go back to the first few posts of this thread. Stretch was a mid-90s scorer at the beginning, and he's now a 4 handicap. That's improvement. As to the "diminishing returns" (I'm on my iPhone so multi-quoting one post is annoying), Logman, you've mentioned several times recently how you don't like it when people say high-handicappers shouldn't have opinions on swings. I agree with you that it doesn't take a great player to know the swing, but maybe it does take a great player to know what it's like to improve in different intervals. It's roughly a billion times harder to go from a 12 to a 4 than it is to go from a 28 to a 20, and as a 10 handicapper I'm not sure you understand that. Diminishing returns should be expected in some respect. It's really tough to improve past where Stretch has. But use if video makes it much less difficult. Since he's gotten this far this fast, I'm not exactly sure why you'd question his use of video.

[JetFan1983]

Logman: Stop taking your log turds on Stretch's thread.

[colin007]

I take full credit for Stretch's No Talent Ass-Clown moniker.

[logman]

My examples of Dufner,Bubba etc was to demonstrate that there are many ways to swing the club and in a way their greatness exists inspite of video coaching. Can you imagine a young John Daly getting his coaching by video. Come on all of you golf coaches out there, how many of you would be saying, "shorten that backswing", "work on that posture", "lower your head" etc etc. I'm all for improvement but improvement is a personal thing, comparisons are pretty useless. The things that make Stretches swing work for him are not the things that work for someone else.

Jetfan, I wouldn't want to disrespect Stretch and my original post is about his swing.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by logman

My examples of Dufner,Bubba etc was to demonstrate that there are many ways to swing the club and in a way their greatness exists inspite of video coaching. Can you imagine a young John Daly getting his coaching by video. Come on all of you golf coaches out there, how many of you would be saying, "shorten that backswing", "work on that posture", "lower your head" etc etc. I'm all for improvement but improvement is a personal thing, comparisons are pretty useless. The things that make Stretches swing work for him are not the things that work for someone else.

Jetfan, I wouldn't want to disrespect Stretch and my original post is about his swing.

The comparisons to other swings are made not to make our swings look likes somebody elses or to have a "picture perfect" swing but rather to help understand what we are doing and how it could be done better. All of the players you mentioned are great players because they all do certain things the same. If you struggle with a certain piece, it can be helpful to compare your swing to a player who doesn't and see what it is they are doing that works and see if it can be applied to your own game. Early in the thread, Erik compared Stretch's swing to Rickie Fowlers because Stretch needed to feel as if he was making a takeaway similar to Fowler to get the club in a better position and have more consistency.

The point is that video analysis can be very helpful, especially when the analysis is done by people who actually know their stuff. As Jamo said, Stretch was a mid-90s guy when this thread started and is now a 4, and video played a big part in that, I'm sure. Personally, when I started my own My Swing thread, I was shooting low 100s and am in the mid to upper 80s now and video has been a big part of that. Also, Jamo nailed it when he talked about the difference between a high handicap player and a mid handicap versus a mid and low handicap. The better your skill the harder it is to get even better. I shaved a lot of strokes this last year (about a 19 or so to a 12) but if I can go from a 12 to an 8 or 9 this year, that will be a much bigger accomplishment.

Now, I think that Stretch's thread has be derailed quite enough and it's time to get this thing back on track. If you don't like video analysis, that's fine, but I suggest you stay out of the My Swing threads. Obviously this is working for Stretch (and others), so leave it be, let them get their advice and improve and you can go do your LPG stuff or whatever.

[jamo]

My examples of Dufner,Bubba etc was to demonstrate that there are many ways to swing the club and in a way their greatness exists inspite of video coaching. Can you imagine a young John Daly getting his coaching by video. Come on all of you golf coaches out there, how many of you would be saying, "shorten that backswing", "work on that posture", "lower your head" etc etc. I'm all for improvement but improvement is a personal thing, comparisons are pretty useless. The things that make Stretches swing work for him are not the things that work for someone else. Jetfan, I wouldn't want to disrespect Stretch and my original post is about his swing.

No, smart people wouldn't be saying those things to John Daly because he would be shooting 65s. John Daly is otherworldly talented. Most people making My Swing threads on here, however, are not, and need swing changes just to shoot 80. P.S. As JetFan points out below me, back on topic, please. I apologize for leading us astray.

[JetFan1983]

Just to get this thread somewhat back on track, I want to say to Stretch that I think the changes you've made have been really good. I really enjoy this thread. Keep up the good work!

Originally Posted by logman

My examples of Dufner,Bubba etc was to demonstrate that there are many ways to swing the club and in a way their greatness exists inspite of video coaching. Can you imagine a young John Daly getting his coaching by video. Come on all of you golf coaches out there, how many of you would be saying, "shorten that backswing", "work on that posture", "lower your head" etc etc. I'm all for improvement but improvement is a personal thing, comparisons are pretty useless. The things that make Stretches swing work for him are not the things that work for someone else.

Jetfan, I wouldn't want to disrespect Stretch and my original post is about his swing.

Start a thread on this topic. You'll get replies.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

I'm all for improvement but improvement is a personal thing, comparisons are pretty useless. The things that make Stretches swing work for him are not the things that work for someone else.

Physics is the same for everyone, and within reason, we're all built roughly the same - with arms, elbows, hands, etc. So within a VERY loose framework for how those work in motion, all good players have five things they do (you really don't understand what 5 Simple Keys is about), leaving a LOT of room for "personality" in a golf swing.

Stretch has gone from shooting in the 90s to having a chance at going under par, and he's done it precisely the way you have said is not the way it is to be done. He could give you a few a side and kick your butt on a bad day, and is putting his swing here which is also something you've failed to do. Furthermore, you have assumed things about John Daly, Jason Dufner, and others despite the fact that they have likely used video (Dufner has quite a bit, and I've seen it first-hand), as well as Tiger, Rory, etc. using video to improve at THEIR level of play.

And logman: that's the end of the off-topic stuff in Stretch's thread now. It's rude.

I second JetFan's work Stretch: keep it up.

[colin007]

Stretch, you are one giant mofo...I'm 6'4" and i feel tiny watching you...how long are your clubs?

[TimG3394]

Stretch, you are one giant mofo...I'm 6'4" and i feel tiny watching you...how long are your clubs?

just from memory I think he said +1.5 but correct me if I am wrong, stretch.

[colin007]

No way, that driver looks like it's 52" at least...

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by colin007

No way, that driver looks like it's 52" at least...

That's what she said!

Nah, it's 45". I'm 6'7" and my irons are +1.5" and 2* flat.

Sorry I missed the party.

Logman, no offense taken. To be honest, I don't really use video a whole lot myself unless I'm corresponding with a coach or a golf mate and need visuals to illustrate some point or another. Once every couple of months maybe. As far as my swing goes, I'll freely admit to enjoying tinkering around with it as an intellectual and physical exercise. I'm never going to play golf for a living and am not even that motivated by score (although obviously it's nice to set new personal bests). What I find rewarding is being able to get around a course efficiently and having the ability to hit the shots called for by the design. So I'm always trying to expand the envelope of my competence, one way or another. I had a pretty stable game playing everything low and left to right, but it bugged me to be that one dimensional -- so I've spent the last six months figuring out how to also hit it high(er) and right to left. And sure I'd like my swing to fit the aesthetic I personally prefer (single planer, body driven etc.) a little better, in the same way I'd also like my belly to hang over my belt a little less. It may or may not eventuate in the near term ...

[mvmac]

Stretch, have you and Quint gotten a chance to work together recently?

[Stretch]

Quick session on SAM Puttlab today. Worked on getting the little loops out of the backswing (Before left, After right. The path average is skewed in the second series by a big fat pull on the third putt.):

And on getting a bit more natural rise, back and through.

I used to have a face angle issue to go along with my path problems, but that's now sorted quite nicely!