"Target Golf" - Now I Know what that Means...

[pittpanther]

Played a course outside Orlando last week (Magnolia Plantation). I noticed their website (or maybe it was a review of the course) mentioned that the course was a fine example of "target golf." Not knowing what that meant, I went ahead and played - BIG mistake.

Probably the most punitive course I have played in my short golf career. Anything that didn't land dead center, with no side roll, managed to find either water or the woods. No wide open fairways - if you missed, kiss your ball goodbye.

Probably the worst hole - a par-3, 183 yards. All carry over water. The water ended with a short up-slope and then the green. No place to bail out, OB on the left, only a small strip of grass and the cart path on the right, then trees. I don't know too many 20-HC's who have a show that can carry that far, but also stop on a dime. I tried to finesse a 5W, and dropped it into the water, 1 foot short of the up-slope. I believe I was playing the tees that were appropriate for my skill level - 6200 yards.

In the clubhouse after wards, there were several guys (including me) who called the course a "ball eater."

I would rather play a PGA-level course, than a super-narrow, tight track with woods everywhere. Sigh - just whining!

[saevel25]

Thats a rediculous course. I like them to be fair but challenging. If you have an island green there should be a drop zone thats a short iron shot. Though i don't mine tree lined courses, played in a few, they are brutal but nothing wrong with them. Dome greens, classic donald ross style, were you better be center of the green or you will have a long day.

[WUTiger]

I have noticed some tighter courses where you have to work the ball on most holes. If you can't fade and draw at will, you'll lose a lot of balls.

As you say, on half the holes a missed fairway or a missed approach can be a disaster. Some courses are just plain hard - you just have to be good - not even moving up from middle to senior tees helps much.

[Chief Broom]

I'm no fan of hard courses either. Sadly building easy forgiving lay outs doesn't seem to be something courses are interested in these days.

[pittpanther]

I'm no fan of hard courses either. Sadly building easy forgiving lay outs doesn't seem to be something courses are interested in these days.

They have the right to build whatever course they want. If they want a course that is difficult, that only 10HCs or better will enjoy, they can do that. And in their defense, they said in their materials that the course required "target golf" skills. So I was warned...

But I will let anyone who cares know that this course is not for the intermediate skilled golfer.

[OCdude12]

I'm no fan of hard courses either. Sadly building easy forgiving lay outs doesn't seem to be something courses are interested in these days.

I hope you don't have high hopes of improving your game much then, and instead just play to "enjoy" yourself. Or, hopefully I'm taking your definition of a hard course wrong. Tricked up courses, that aren't fair, I agree, I don't like those. But to just say you don't like hard courses I feel like goes against the whole point of playing golf. Don't you play to get better? I for one would much rather play a harder course than an easy one because it tests your skill, you get (or should get) a variety of holes, and you leave wanting more.

For a course developer, if you're putting in all sorts of money into your new course, why would want to make and easy forgiving course? So the hacks can go around telling people they love that course so much cause they were able to shoot a good score instead of saying what a great course it was? Probably wouldnt get too many good reviews for a place like that.

[JML22]

I won't play courses that have no risk reward decisions
Lke dirver, theres always the risk of snap hooking one into the bush or something, but if its 100 yards wide i dont realy have to worry about it i'm just gonna let it rip as hard as i can.

Now some greeens are pretty riddiculous but overall, narrow,doglegs,ponds, etc.... all apart of the game
Just get better at it

[Fairway_CY]

I don't think Chief Broom meant just ANY course that was rated above a 113 or whatever... I think he meant what was being posted earlier... courses where anything OTHER than a perfect shot results in disaster. Even Tour professionals hate courses like that... just look at some of the US Open layouts in the early part of this millenium. A lot of guys complained that the layouts were totally unfair and there was ZERO room for error. Nobody wants to play on a course like that.

I'm of the belief that the tougher a course is... the better it is for my improvement down the road. However, unfair courses just aren't fun. There is one hole at a course I play at least once a year... it's a par 5 of about 560 yards. It's a 90 degree dogleg to the left off the tee at about 150 yards. You can't go over the trees because they're too tall and too close to get the elevation required. You can't draw it around the trees because it's too short and you're guaranteed to run it through the fairway and possible OB if you hit it TOO far. So... after the tee shot... you're left with about 410 yards. At about 220 yards from the dogleg, there is a ravine. It's about impossible for the majority of people I've played with there to carry that ravine... so you're forced to layup and hit a shot of about 200 yards in to an elevated green with a steep runoff to OB on the left and a deep bunker off to the right of the green. It's a double bogey just about every time I play the hole.

To me... it's an unfair hole. The only reason it doesn't really bother me is because the next hole is a birdie hole with plenty of room to let out your frustration from the previous hole.

I hate holes like that. It makes the game frustrating... and, truthfully... playing that hole over and over will never make me a better golfer. The options are limited... and short of adding a 250 yard shot from the fairway to carry the ravine and give me a 6 or 7 iron in to the green... nothing is going to make that hole any different for me. It's just a crappy layout.

CY

[Stile442]

Pittpanther- I feel your pain. I played that course about a month ago for a friends birthday and lost 17 balls over the course of the round. Definitely not going back until I've improved a bit.

[sean_miller]

I don't think Chief Broom meant just ANY course that was rated above a 113 or whatever... I think he meant what was being posted earlier... courses where anything OTHER than a perfect shot results in disaster. Even Tour professionals hate courses like that... just look at some of the US Open layouts in the early part of this millenium. A lot of guys complained that the layouts were totally unfair and there was ZERO room for error. Nobody wants to play on a course like that.

Every time someone says there's no advantage to being able to hit a long ball, I'll link to this post. That hole sounds weird - I'd say 9 iron, 3 or 5-wood, pitching wedge.

I played a course like that last month with some 5s. On the back 9 the first par 5 is 620 yards. The tee shot is a 3-wood layup to the pond, then a full 5-wood to the 150 marker. It plays a tad longer than the card, because of the water. The other par 5 is even more ridiculous. 5-iron off the tee because there's water everywhere, a 5-wood over water, 6-iron in. I dunked the first one in the water then eventually one putted for bogey - I was pretty happy taking only 11 strokes on those 2 holes.

[Chief Broom]

Golf is a hard game. It's especially hard for those who are just taking it up. Good course design blends toughness with ease. Bail outs exist in a plenty, but that's not how you'll make birdies. Courses that only allow low cappers an opportunity to score, and thereby enjoy their round, are courses that only serve a very small minority of the people who desire to take up and play this game. The best courses offer a blend of both, challenge for the skillful and forgiveness for the novice. Obviously such a blend is hard to find and courses that cater to specific skill sets are in order, but these days most courses are built with a high rating and slope in mind. This is short sighted in my opinion and ultimately hurts the game.

[Fourputt]

Played a course outside Orlando last week (Magnolia Plantation). I noticed their website (or maybe it was a review of the course) mentioned that the course was a fine example of "target golf." Not knowing what that meant, I went ahead and played - BIG mistake.

A course doesn't have to be a torture track to be a target course. All that requires is that the best chance for scoring or for having a good approach shot requires placing the ball correctly on each shot. You can be somewhat wild off the tee or with a setup shot and still be able to play your ball... you just may not be able to play it to the green. Such courses are quite fun because when you place the ball correctly, good things can happen, but when you aren't quite as accurate, you still have a chance to play golf. Many of the best courses in the world tend to use this sort of design strategy, some with better effect than others.

I hope you don't have high hopes of improving your game much then, and instead just play to "enjoy" yourself. Or, hopefully I'm taking your definition of a hard course wrong. Tricked up courses, that aren't fair, I agree, I don't like those. But to just say you don't like hard courses I feel like goes against the whole point of playing golf. Don't you play to get better? I for one would much rather play a harder course than an easy one because it tests your skill, you get (or should get) a variety of holes, and you leave wanting more.

Spoken like a scratch golfer. Maybe when you can actually hit every shot within a few yards of your target, those courses are fun, but for those of us who can't, we still like to be able to play golf. That does not mean dropping a new ball every other shot. A course can punish without costing a dozen balls per round. Strategically placed trees, medium rough, and interesting and well designed green complexes can make all the difficulty a course needs. It doesn't need OB right and water left on one hole, then the reverse on the next, and continuing on ad nauseum for 18 holes. In my opinion, that's just a sign of an unimaginative architect. It's also boring as well as irritating and frustrating.

You are right in saying that golf should be challenging, but it's still supposed to be a fun challenge. If this game wasn't fun, I wouldn't play it, and the course the OP describes would drive me to take up another pastime.

[clearwaterms]

my home course has a hole just like this. It's a 390 yard par 4. The dog leg is to the right, and right at 200 yards. OB down the entire right hand side, and water long. At the corner is a tall tree. If you are a longer hitter, you can hit a 3 wood (or a driver tee'd high) over the right edge of the tree and if you make the fairway can leave yourself an easy shot into a green the slopes to the front (making it fairly receptive) but go long and you have tall grass / fescue to deal with. If hit it straight (or can't go over the tree) you are left with a 220+ shot into the green. Being a left hander who typically has a slight fade this whole is TOTALLY unfair. However, the course is $10 for 9 holes after 1PM, and as a result I will continue to visit it on a regular basis.

[jamo]

Tough, narrow courses are fine for me, unless I'm hitting driver, 3 iron into every par 4. Then they get annoying.

[laconic517]

im all for tough courses but these newer courses that are being built are ugly and or no fun because you have no chance to play for recovery. I mean having a hazzard and or OB on every single hole off your tee ball? You get no chance to play recovery shots because you just take your drop and penalty. Im a fan of the older style golf courses with trees and such so that if you do miss a fairway god forbid by 5 to 10 yards if you have the ability you can work the ball onto the green or punch something up there and get up and down.

these hazzards arent even water. They are ugly marshes or long grass. Its just crap. You almost never see tour players play courses like this because they play all the older classic ones. The only course that I can remember the tour playing that reminds me of these newer courses is that one in New York, the national or whatever it was. I think you could see New York's harbor from the course. It looked ridiculous just like all the other new ugly courses.

I understand it takes time for trees to grow, but come on.

[Blades4me]

Personally speaking, the more demanding the course, the better I like it. This is b/c it really makes me focus on keeping my ball in play. This at times means taking a shorter but more controlable club off of the tee, considering lay ups, even on some par 4's and basically, play'n within myself, oh and always keeps me thinking.

Every course has its personality and to play it well one has to clue into that. As with ppl, some ppl have very good personalities and others don't. After awhile you learn which ones to avoid.

If I want easy, I'll snowboard!

[Paz]

I hope you don't have high hopes of improving your game much then, and instead just play to "enjoy" yourself. Or, hopefully I'm taking your definition of a hard course wrong. Tricked up courses, that aren't fair, I agree, I don't like those. But to just say you don't like hard courses I feel like goes against the whole point of playing golf. Don't you play to get better? I for one would much rather play a harder course than an easy one because it tests your skill, you get (or should get) a variety of holes, and you leave wanting more.

best post ive seen in a while

[Fat Slice]

Tough courses make me take honest stock of my weaknesses and try to avoid trouble. Yes, I lose balls and score poorly. However...what I learn on those tough courses, applied to an easier course, usually pays dividends. Sometimes an easy course has a tough hole. I'd rather play for bogey than end up with an 8 because I didn't have any defensive skills against a tough hole.

The bitch of it is, though, those tough courses tend to also be expensive...so now I am paying $80 to play plus $40 for the lost balls. OUCH! The flip side of *that* is that when you do find a ball in a ditch or deep rough, it's almost always a Pro V.