Top High Handicapper Mistake

[Shanks A Million]

Most of what I see with high handicappers (18-36)

What a myth. I've yet to see a high handicaper with a good swing and make bad decisions. It's swing, swing, swing. Nearly all pros will tell you that they can guess someone's handicap within a few swings on the range. I think people want to believe it's all decisions, or putting because it means they can keep using their crappy swing and still play great golf. It's a lie. Flip the club before impact, and you're not breaking 80.

[bwdial]

Flip the club before impact, and you're not breaking 80.

Don't I know it. :/

[pbuckeye]

Almost all high handicappers have a poor grip, which may lead to the other problems. But make no mistake, that 99% of bad golfers have a poor grip.

As a "very" high handicapper, I can weigh in on this. When I was starting out, I had a pretty bad grip and it showed in the form of slices, mishits and wildly inconsistent shots. After fixing my grip (it still needs some work, but is decent according to some low handicap friends), my game has dramatically improved (no slices, mishits etc).

Having said that, even with a decent grip, I continue to struggle with distance, accuracy and consistency due to my poor swing. An improved swing may have a bigger impact on the game but I think improving the grip is much easier for beginners.

[O.B. Right]

This thread is depressing. I understand my high handicap is caused by my out to in swing. And, you guys seem to know it as well. The problem, for the life of me, is how to fix it. After visits to one top 50 instructor at 120 an hour twice, and many, many visits to my local pro at the club (at least 10 in the last 12 weeks) , I am still chasing the elusive in to out swing path. I have tried it all. My ball striking sucks and every now and then I get lucky. The lucky shots keep me trying, but I really don't know where to proceed from this point of non-progression.

Hey cshutchinson - did it help? I guess, from lack of posts, maybe not? I wanted to add one thing to the guy who said you might just not have enough coordination to play golf. He might be right but I think it's even more likely that you don't BELIEVE the motions your instructors are teaching you will make a good shot. As ShanksAMillion has pretty much said, the golf swing is counter-intuitive at first. It looks like you're about to blast it a mile to the right - and then, WHAM - it goes straight or even draws - almost by itself. I am at a stage now where I can hit great at the range with my teacher standing behind me but, as soon as I get on a tee box, I stop BELIEVING in my swing and start doing goofy stuff and slicing the ball.

Also - I wanted to say I thought Shanks' comments on this thread have been particulary spot-on - at least from my perspective as somebody who has moved from a max capper to an mid/upper teens this summer.

[JWL1957]

What a myth. I've yet to see a high handicaper with a good swing and make bad decisions. It's swing, swing, swing. Nearly all pros will tell you that they can guess someone's handicap within a few swings on the range. I think people want to believe it's all decisions, or putting because it means they can keep using their crappy swing and still play great golf. It's a lie. Flip the club before impact, and you're not breaking 80.

I have seen way too many players with swings far better than mine who cannot break 90 because of poor decision making. It's not a myth. I have one of the crappiest swings in the world and could easily get back to a 6 handicap if I got to play more. A sound swing is very important..... but it gets you squat if your not in the short grass most of the time.

[O.B. Right]

Actually there does seem to be a category of "bad swingers" that can shoot low scores sometimes - but not flippers (that I know of). I know one guy at my course who does this early wristcock thing and sometimes hits the ball great. Other times he can't keep it in bounds. I've seen him shoot 1 under for 9 (once) and I've seen him shoot in the high 40's and low 50's (lots). Still, other than the early wrist thing, his swing is way more fundamentally correct (looking to me, at least) than my own or some other, typical high handicapper. He definitely has good impact position (when he doesn't hook it OB). And it's not really his decision making that is off (although he never bags the driver) - it's his timing that is off on those days.

[Shanks A Million]

I have seen way too many players with swings far better than mine who cannot break 90 because of poor decision making. It's not a myth. I have one of the crappiest swings in the world and could easily get back to a 6 handicap if I got to play more. A sound swing is very important..... but it gets you squat if your not in the short grass most of the time.

I've still yet to see it, and anecdotal evidence doesn't hold much precedence to me. What may appear to be a sound swing is often not. Many people comment that Jim Furyk has a "bad" swing that he somehow breaks par with. Nothing could be further from true. Furyk has one of the best impact positions on the planet, and his swing is fundamentally, from the downswing to the followthrough, very sound. It's the loop that throws people off.

Looks are worthless. Sometimes ugly swings produce results. Look at Eamon Darcy, look at Jim Thorpe. There is not a high handicapper in this world who has a move through impact as good as those guys. Lag, plane, repeatability. That's all there really is to any swing. If you've got a forward leaning club shaft, and hold that lag until the followthrough, keep it on a good plane, and you can repeat it, you can go as low as your bad decisions will take you, but to claim a 15 or even a 10 handicap has a great swing but makes bad decisions, that's simply untrue.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Here's a list from Raymond Floyd's book, The Elements of Scoring , that I hope I'm not violating copyright laws by posting:
1. Underclubbing.
2. Swinging too hard.
3. Automatically shooting at the flag.
4. Not playing away from trouble.
5. Missing the green on the wrong side of the flag.
6. Trying for too much out of trouble.
7. Trying shots you have never practiced.
8. Panicking in the sand.
9. Misreading turf and lie conditions.
10. Consistently underreading the break on greens.

His point is that it's mistakes like these that prevent you from getting the most out of the skills you have.

[JWL1957]

Here's a list from Raymond Floyd's book,

There ya go Shanks! Thats what I see every week also, but you just might be on a different plane.

[sean_miller]

Thats what I see every week . . .

Ditto. I have a friend who shot 100 last time out. He didn't hit any more "bad" shots than I did contactwise (I had some really good shots / holes - just not a full 18) but here are some of his mistakes.

- 3 times he didn't notice there was a water hazard front and right of the green. He thought he was playing safe just short and right of the green - sploosh - about 4 or 5 times he copied my setup and hit a ball starting down the right side of the fairway - he hits a fade - click thwack gonzo - 2 OB and the others just plain deep woods - he repeatedly took an agressive line (fired at pins) out of the rough with a fairway wood when he probably would have a good chance at an up and down playing a mid iron (he's a much better putter than I am). - he insisted on playing the black tees with me even though the sign said 6-10 handicap (0-5 was off the yellows). - I asked him after one good drive aimed right at a giant sod walled bunker where he was aiming and he wasn't sure (I'd just carried the bunker)

[Shanks A Million]

There ya go Shanks! Thats what I see every week also, but you just might be on a different plane.

Sorry, still not buying it. A guy who played well wrote a book, that's not any proof. Nick Faldo won twice as many majors, and he still says that the swingpath is where the ball starts. I already made a thread with swings and handicaps, and so far, not a single double digit handicapper has not flipped the club. As much as I wanted

badly to disagree with Iacas in the past, he's simply correct in his assumptions on this one, and there's a mountain of evidence to back up his theory, both anecdotal, and otherwise. I've come around to discover that his critique is not made in spite, but out of a genuine need to mentor, the same way I feel about music, and people often think I'm trying to boast about music. There's only so low you can go with a swing that doesn't leave you room for error. I'm about a 7 handicap, right? You think it's cause of bad decisions? Hell no. I'd be deluding myself to believe that. My decisions would be fine if my swing were great. You can rationalize it till the cows come home, but a good golf instructor can, with a few swings, tell you what your handicap is. Assuming your plane is good, I can tell you this. You bottom out behind the ball, forget it, you're a double digit. You bottom out under the ball, you're about a 10. You bottom out about 2" in front of the ball, you're a 5. Bottom out 4" in front of the ball, you're scratch. Bottom out 6" in front of the ball, you're a tour pro. I do believe that golf is about 99% fantasy. I notice when you point out to someone who asks you what they're doing wrong, they rarely want to believe you. Most people can't come to grips with the fact they're flipping their wrists. They just don't understand how far past the ball the club crosses the hands. My 6 iron leans forward 6° at impact, but my hands cup, and the club moves forward and crosses my hands about shortly after impact. That's why I'm a 7. To work that down till I don't flip will take months, if not years of practice. You lag the club properly, and your chances of severely mishitting the ball are so dramatically reduced. I was filming my swing, and was amazed to see that I hit the ground a full 3" behind the ball on one swing, but amazingly, the forward lean was there long enough, and my plane was just shallow enough, to save me. The shot flew the exact distance it should have. The pro I've been working with wants to make sure I understand that that's what golf is, reducing the margin of error. Any idiot can hit a great shot, but only a very special idiot can hit 72 or less shots of a decent caliber.

[sean_miller]

. . . only a very special idiot can hit 72 or less shots of a decent caliber.

Even with good decisions, my buddy would've been in the mid-80s.

[jamo]

There ya go Shanks! Thats what I see every week also, but you just might be on a different plane.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. You can certainly drop your handicap a few strokes by making better decisions, by becoming a better putter, and by getting the ball up and down a little better. But THE ONE thing that separates high and low handicappers is swing. It could be flipping like Shanks said, it could be coming over the top, it could hanging back with your weight, or it could be a combination of things.

[bwdial]

... it could be coming over the top, it could hanging back with your weight, or it could be a combination of things.

Wow. You've just described my swing.

[Shanks A Million]

Wow. You've just described my swing.

And, in essence, the scourge of high handicappers (although you're a mid handicap). Truly fighting, and overcoming those things is not easy, I think we can all admit that. If you are flipping (and most are), then you've got to time your swing precisely to hit the ball solidly. Many times, you can do it, but many times, you can't.

What we think we do, and what we do are two different things, and often two opposite things. I've seen plenty of players who have incredibly strange, ugly, and downright bizarre swings talk all about some move or another they 'replicate' from some great, when they do no such thing. I've seen a guy who reverse pivots so badly, he swings and actually moves back so far as to take a rather large step back, away from the target. Yet he repeats this swing day in, and day out, figuring practice will make him better. I've seen guys who loop the club back on the inside, then back way over the top, and day after day talk about how they're starting to hit that draw, they got it, just one... more... change... But they never hit the draw, because they don't know how. I've seen at least a thousand golfers practice or play in the last year alone, and of that thousand, I've seen about 25 that had a fundamentally sound swing. That 25 ranged from pro to 4 handicap, but almost never any higher, with a few exceptions of people over age 65, who hit their driver about 180 yards. But in all that time, I've seen a lot more people who think they have a fundamentally sound swing. They blame everything from the putter to the gravitational pull of Saturn for their high handicap. But in the end, it all comes down to the swing. The swing is what gets you those first 30 shots, from a 5 handicap to a +11 (I'm looking at you, Tiger), it's about putting, short game, mental game, decisions, etc. So, when you get to that level, you can start to blame a bulky putter for your woes, but not until then.

[bwdial]

This is kind of like the short game v. long game argument.
The prevailing wisdom among the gurus is that the fastest way to reduce a handicap is to improve the short game, but for the high handicapper, chances are they've already burned through multiple strokes through duffing the ball or compounding errors with penalty strokes.

[Stretch]

Assuming your plane is good, I can tell you this. You bottom out behind the ball, forget it, you're a double digit. You bottom out under the ball, you're about a 10. You bottom out about 2" in front of the ball, you're a 5. Bottom out 4" in front of the ball, you're scratch. Bottom out 6" in front of the ball, you're a tour pro.

Bottom out a foot and a half in front of the ball and you're playing early on a Saturday after never making it to bed the night before.*

(Corollary: How can you tell if the golfer has properly completed his follow through? He's fallen over and is lying face down on the tee box.)

[Zeph]

Poor course management and poor decisions? Can't say I've ever noticed such a thing. If anything, high handicappers tend to take less club and not go for it. The problem remains to be ball striking. They stand with a 7 iron in hand and 130 yards to the flag. The shot can end up at 30 yards, 110 yards, left or right. They may have the wrong club in hand, but that's because they don't hit the ball consistently enough to know the distance with the clubs.

I would put course management very low on a list of high handicapper mistakes.