Mizuno MP-68s From Ebay: Authentic or Knock-offs?

[bplewis24]

Thanks for the input. I do agree with all of that. My main concern is proving that they are counterfeit, because all of the legal/illegal discussion hinges upon that assumption. Before, I was going to ship them back because all of the "evidence" was basically circumstantial or 2nd-hand. But after the trip to the pro shop, it seems more concrete that they are fake. But still, it's not something that is very apparent upon initial inspection.

So basically I can tell the post office they are counterfeit, but they are taking me at my word on that. Is there some sort of legal standard by which I can protect myself? Do I have a local "expert" write up something saying they feel they are counterfeit clubs?

Brandon

[mjtoal]

This thread is a pretty good start at recording the events, and is all time stamped.

I would be inclined not to send the clubs back to the seller. As a general rule, I would assume that someone who seels stolen goods knows they are stolen and is a liar and a fraud. His quick response to refund you does not at all mean he was shocked to find these were fake.

The best solution here is you get your money back and these clubs go back to Mizuno along with all the info you can provide for their trademark infringement lawyers to investigate, or into the trash.

[jpalermo]

If he didn't ask for them back wait for him to ask you for them, he already gave you your money back, so you are pretty much in the clear. I have always wondered how these fake pos's perform. Maybe you should start a thread and document how crappy they really are.

[delav]

Thanks to all for posting and sustaining this thread, it's been a very interesting read. I commend the OP for his diligence in doing the right thing, rather than acting irrationally or pissing and moaning about the circumstances.

I would see if Mizuno has any interest in the clubs as "rights owner" for the product itself. You never know what they may do in return for your determination to ensure that these clubs stay off of the market.

[bplewis24]

The best solution here is you get your money back and these clubs go back to Mizuno along with all the info you can provide for their trademark infringement lawyers to investigate, or into the trash.

I would see if Mizuno has any interest in the clubs as "rights owner" for the product itself. You never know what they may do in return for your determination to ensure that these clubs stay off of the market.

I emailed Mizuno this morning. I detailed why I believe they are counterfeit and directed them to this thread. I asked them to forward the information to any higher ups, including legal representation and intellectual property counsel and to advise me as to how to proceed from here. We'll see how they respond.

Thanks to all for posting and sustaining this thread, it's been a very interesting read. I commend the OP for his diligence in doing the right thing, rather than acting irrationally or pissing and moaning about the circumstances.

Thanks. I figured it would be a two-way street: people here with more knowledge about clubs, Mizunos and counterfeits could help me figure out how to deal with my situation, and I would be helping serve as a reference to other people who are in the same predicament or, better yet, trying to avoid this predicament. The hardest part is just getting over the initial embarrassment of having been duped and actually posting all of this stuff online

If he didn't ask for them back wait for him to ask you for them, he already gave you your money back, so you are pretty much in the clear.

Well, yesterday evening he emailed me asking that when I ship them back to provide a confirmation number. That was the first direct correspondence since I opened the paypal dispute, so I think he was feeling me out and hoping I was going to be responsive.

Brandon

[mheier]

Just curious how did everything work out?

[bplewis24]

Just curious how did everything work out?

Well, things got kinda interesting:

1) First, I found a reputable Mizuno dealer on ebay. I didn't intend to, but I purchased some wedges from him and noticed that they came straight from the Mizuno manufacturing plant in Norcross, GA. So I custom-ordered the MP-68s from him as well, for about $200 less than you pay retail. I couldn't be happier. 2) I asked PayPal again if they had any policies on returning the counterfeit goods. They reviewed the case, noted that I received my money back and that the seller was requesting the items back, and told me that I had no further obligation to do so. So I emailed the seller and let him know that if he wanted the clubs he could either pick them up himself, or pay for the shipping himself, fill out and sign the customs form, and send me the documents and I'd drop them off at UPS. 3) After some back and forth, he decided to pay for shipping, but he needed a phone and fax number to have UPS send the label to me. I gave him my work phone and fax number, but transposed 2 digits in the fax number, so it took UPS one extra day to get the label to me. In that extra day he decided to threaten to press charges against me for stealing his property. I politely told him that the fax number was incorrect, I have the UPS label so it's no problem as I cleared it up with UPS, and that he should stop with the threats of prosecution because he and I both know he has no grounds to do so, since he knowingly sold counterfeit clubs. He responded back, pretty belligerently, stating that if I didn't send the clubs back "NOW," he would be pressing charges. So I took the packed, wrapped and labeled clubs out of my car, put them back in the office and told him to go ahead and press charges. The saga continues ... Brandon

[kennay92]

Well, things got kinda interesting:

ahahahahha nice, theres pretty much no way he could win...

[rego]

Fantastic, way to stick it too him, serves him right for trying to rip you off

[Shorty]

These clubs are not your property.
Are you thinking that two wrongs make a right?
Why don't you destroy them and send him the photos if you want to take the moral high ground?
But it seems to me that you want your cake and the luxury of eating it too. Whining about counterfeit goods, but wanting a set for free.
Let ebay, Mizuno and Paypal deal with this guy. He has every right to prosecute you, even though it's probably all bluff.
By what reasoning are you feeling as though you can get your money back AND keep the clubs?

[Stretch]

Did you ever hear back from Mizuno?

[bplewis24]

But it seems to me that you want your cake and the luxury of eating it too. Whining about counterfeit goods, but wanting a set for free.

You probably haven't been keeping up with this thread if that's the conclusion you've come to, so I'll answer your questions.

1) Do two wrongs make a right? No. 2) Moral high ground is murky in this situation, and isn't really my concern. Since nobody has instructed me to destroy the clubs, I'm more likely to take them to the police department than waste energy chopping them up. 3) I've never once indicated that I wanted to keep these clubs. In fact it has always been the opposite, and I already purchased a set of authentic Mizuno irons that are now in my possession. And I don't ever recall having a "whiny" tone about these counterfeit clubs. Neither to him nor on this forum. 4) I've contacted Ebay, Mizuno & Paypal numerous times about their policies and any instruction or guidance they had in dealing with the clubs and specifically if I have any obligation to send them back to the seller. Paypal specifically reviewed the case (including his request for the merchandise back) and had the following to say:

Dear Brandon Lewis, Thank you for contacting PayPal. From researching your account history, I can see that your issue has been resolved as the payment has been refunded. No further action is required of you for the claim... We know situations like this can be difficult, so thanks for working with us. If you have more questions, visit our Help Center by clicking "Help" in the top right corner of any PayPal page. Sincerely, Gabrielle Protection Services Department PayPal, an eBay Company

5) Whether or not he has the right to prosecute is up for debate. By all of my research on the subject matter (about 5-6 hours researching counterfeit goods, the shipping of counterfeit goods internationally, and specifically returning counterfeit goods to a merchant who sold them to you), it appears that counterfeit goods are illegal to possess with the intent of distributing or selling, and thus he can't prosecute me to have his illegal merchandise returned to him. It would be like a burglar stealing goods and then having them stolen from him, and suing for their return. There is a mountain of evidence revealing him to essentially be a criminal, or at least partaking in criminal behavior. He is not an aggrieved party.

6) I, again, never intended to keep the clubs. I made it very clear that I'm not comfortable signing the customs form to ship counterfeit goods across the border, and he can have the clubs picked up. However, if he wants to get bold and threaten to press charges, then by all means he can do that and I'll be the ginuea pig to see what the law actually has to say about shipping of counterfeit goods internationally. If you want to judge me negatively for that, that's fine. I think there is a lot of gray area here and I think reasonable minds would differ in how best to deal with it. I'm pretty content with my mind state and intentions in how I've dealt with it so far and don't regret any of my actions one bit. The clubs will be packed in this EMS box until it's time to go to court.

Did you ever hear back from Mizuno?

Yes. Mizuno had no interest in the clubs:

Brandon, The clubs below are most likely counterfeit in this case. If the retailer has provided you with a refund without returning the clubs, I wouldn't worry about sending them back. However, if the retailer is asking for the return of the product to complete your refund, we would advise taking them up on the offer as it would be the bast way to have your money returned. Best Regards, Mizuno USA http://www.mizunousa.com Consumer Support Division 1-800-966-1211

Brandon

[Stretch]

Seems like you're square with all the corporate entities involved and have been as conscientious as anyone (except Shorty) could expect.

Enjoy the new, genuine set.

[Bullitt5339]

I would take them to a club fitter and have them bend the lie 3*, and if they're cast counterfits, they'll snap like twigs. Then ship the pieces back to him.

[lhshurdl3r]

It seems he made a dumb move in refunding you the money first before he had received the counterfeit clubs back from you. Paypal's protection services just cleared you of any issues if you hang on to those clubs. I'd personally just turn the clubs over to authorities (which will most likely end up being played by the police chief lol) and the seller's Ebay information. Not much else for you to do but ENJOY that custom set you received from Mizuno.

[brgolf]

These clubs are not your property.

Shorty

I do not know the law of this in detail but there are some elementary contradictions in your post. You caution him that the clubs are not his property but then ask why he doesn't destroy them to prove a point. That is terrible advice if the items aren't his property destroying them is completely out of the question unless he has the owners permission. Secondly could you please explain to us what right he has to prosecute OP and even in laymans terms why you assumed the legislation would require that conterfeit goods been returned to their supplier so that he can conceal or destroy the evidence. Pretty please....

[brgolf]

It seems he made a dumb move in refunding you the money first before he had received the counterfeit clubs back from you. Paypal's protection services just cleared you of any issues if you hang on to those clubs. I'd personally just turn the clubs over to authorities (which will most likely end up being played by the police chief lol) and the seller's Ebay information. Not much else for you to do but ENJOY that custom set you received from Mizuno.

My family was once the victim of a dial up internet scam where illegal dialler attacks ranked up a phone bill of some £800+. On request the fraudster returned the money which may surprise some people but often these fraudsters are not entirely detached from the main market. Better to return money so as to not compromise the whole operation.

[Shindig]

1) First, I found a reputable Mizuno dealer on ebay. I didn't intend to, but I purchased some wedges from him and noticed that they came straight from the Mizuno manufacturing plant in Norcross, GA. So I custom-ordered the MP-68s from him as well, for about $200 less than you pay retail. I couldn't be happier.

I'm surprised, with all the replies, that this hasn't been asked yet: who is selling for less than retail shipped straight from the Mizuno plant? I may have to use this guy (the legit one; not the counterfeit that the OP purchased from the first time) for my future Mizuno purchases.